Yet another baseball scoring question

[Hustle]

The high-school version. From a playback game to determine a league regular-season champ:

Johnny Hardthrower (or whatever made up name you want to imagine) is the starting pitcher for his team, the visiting team. They bat in the top of the first, take a 4-0 lead; he pitches 5 1/3 innings and never loses the lead.

When he loses steam, there's a straight position switch. The starting pitcher moves to shortstop, the SS comes in to pitch. The former SS throws effectively for a while, but loses steam in the seventh.

With no outs in the bottom of the seventh and the bases loaded - and the visiting team ahead 8-5 - the original starter comes back in from shortstop to close out the game. He gets a double play, giving up a run (now 8-6 with two outs, runner on third), plunks a batter (two outs, runners on the corners), gets an infield single that scores a run (now 8-7, two outs, runners on first and second), plunks another batter (bases loaded) and gets the last guy to ground out on an unassisted force-out at third. Game over, 8-7 final.

So can this kid do the unthinkable and get the win and the save?

 

[Ace]

Screw that. The dude should not be able to come back and pitch. That's bull.

 

[spnited]

You can not get a win and a save in the same game.
End of discussion!

 

[Stitch]

Screw that. The dude should not be able to come back and pitch. That's bull.

Why is that bull? He's still in the game.

 

[forever_town]

What buckdub said.

It depends on the rules in high school -- or in that particular state's high school baseball association. All I know is that in Babe Ruth baseball, once you remove a pitcher, he is being taken out for the rest of the game as a pitcher only.

 

[chilidog75]

That's an odd rule.
If any other kid came in to the game in that situation, it's a save ---- because it was, in fact, a save situation. And he did techically come on in relief.

But because this kid started the game and was in line for the win, he doesn't qualify?
Weird.

 

[deskslave]

So much for the running scoring question thread. I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna stick, and I'm the one who suggested it. (Or at least someone who suggested it.)

 

[Hustle]

Buck, I knew of that provision in the rules to get a save. I was just curious if there was an out at all because, as chili said, it was two different stints.

I know (b) usually only comes into play when a reliever pitches the top of ninth - or the final extra inning - and his team wins in the bottom of the inning. An win and no save, we all know that.

I didn't know if there was any proviso that covered non-consecutive innings. But it happens so rarely I certainly understand there's no need for one. So I thought I'd ask; thanks for the answers, all of you.

 

[HandsomeHarley]

In the Major Leagues, you cannot be the winning pitcher to get a save. That's one of the requirements.

But it's rare that a pitcher will leave the mound in the majors and return later.

I bend the rules a bit here and do award a win and a save. I know it breaks the rules, but the guy earned it.

 

[forever_town]

Couldn't we have just one running baseball scoring questions thread?

 

[Rhody31]

In high school baseball, you can get the win and the save.
The (b) rule doesn't work in this situation because the starter became the shortstop or whatever position, then went back to the mound as a reliever. So while he is the same physical player, he is not the same, if that makes sense.

 

[spnited]

In high school baseball, you can get the win and the save. The (b) rule doesn't work in this situation because the starter became the shortstop or whatever position, then went back to the mound as a reliever. So while he is the same physical player, he is not the same, if that makes sense.

Says who?

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

In high school baseball, you can get the win and the save.
The (b) rule doesn't work in this situation because the starter became the shortstop or whatever position, then went back to the mound as a reliever. So while he is the same physical player, he is not the same, if that makes sense.

Absolutely wrong. Of course he's the same player. The only reason he's allowed to return to pitch is because he never left the game. Same would apply, if a similar switch ever happened in MLB.

 

[Rhody31]

In high school baseball, you can get the win and the save. The (b) rule doesn't work in this situation because the starter became the shortstop or whatever position, then went back to the mound as a reliever. So while he is the same physical player, he is not the same, if that makes sense.

Says who?

Logic.
Johnny Hardthrower comes in to start, then goes to play shortstop. Johnny Hardthrower the starter is still eligible to earn the win. Reliver A gets hit a little, turns the game into a save situation, and now Johnny Hardthrower the reliever comes in and is eligible for the save. He is the same physical person, but as far as the scorebook goes, he is different.

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Yes, but the rule is "He is not the winning pitcher." I don't see how this could be any more clear.

 

[Rhody31]

Yes, but the rule is "He is not the winning pitcher." I don't see how this could be any more clear.

Because in this situation, he is the winning pitcher in name only. The starting pitcher earned the win and the reliever earned the save.

 

[spnited]

Logic?
In other words, Rhody, you're making it up as you go along.

Show me some high school federation rule that supports your extremely faulty logic, and I'll concede the point. Minus that... you can not get a win and a save in the same game.

 

[forever_town]

Yes, but the rule is "He is not the winning pitcher." I don't see how this could be any more clear.

Because in this situation, he is the winning pitcher in name only. The starting pitcher earned the win and the reliever earned the save.

Uh, no. In the example Johnny Hardthrower starts the game as a pitcher, then goes to shortstop when Billy Podunk comes in to pitch in relief. Then Billy Podunk turns the game into a save situation and Johnny Hardthrower comes back in to pitch again and finishes the game.

Johnny Hardthrower gets the win and ONLY the win. He does not get the save. No one gets the save. Billy Podunk gets nothing and likes it.

 

[KP]

Couldn't we have just one running baseball scoring questions thread?

AMEN!

 

[Seahawk]

No save, ever, for the winning pitcher. No too hard to understand.