The Vietnam War

[lcjjdnh]

Anyone watching the new documentary from Ken Burns? Caught the first 45 minutes or so last night--enjoying it so far. He's been working on it since the GWB administration, according to an interview I heard this weekend.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I've set it to record but still am not sure if I'll invest the time. I'll probably give it a couple of episodes.

Kinda Burnsed out though tbh.

 

[Dyno]

I watched last night, and plan to watch the rest, but I'm traveling and since I'll miss tonight's installment, I won't watch the rest until the weekend at the earliest. I enjoyed part one. I just got done reading Mark Bowden's newest, "Hue 1968," so my Vietnam immersion continues. I highly recommend the book.

 

[Vombatus]

If you've got a Roku device, you can stream them from the PBS channel.

I missed the start, so I'm going to try to play through the whole first episode before tonight.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Watched last night. The time jumps were kind of odd to me.

 

[trifectarich]

Didn't especially like tossing current interview snippets into the timeline of events from 60 years ago, even before U.S. involvement, but I learned a lot from the opening 90 minutes.

 

[lcjjdnh]

Watched last night. The time jumps were kind of odd to me.

Had the same thought. Also, and perhaps I'm dense, but it wasn't clear to me whether the vintage footage they were showing of US soldiers was actually of the person that was being interviewed, or just random stock footage they were throwing in.

 

[Stoney]

The time jumps were kind of odd to me.

That was throwing me at first as well. I've a hard enough time keeping my timeline straight without random leaps to 20 years later.

But otherwise I enjoyed it.

 

[CD Boogie]

Gonna get to this right after I binge watch all the seasons of Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad and Narcos. In other words, never.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Gonna get to this right after I binge watch all the seasons of Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad and Narcos. In other words, never.

That's funny. Mrs. Whitman and I are in "Breaking Bad" hell right now, too. Everything else is on hold until we dig ourselves out.

 

[cranberry]

While Ken Burns is generally losing his fastball, I thought the first installment did a good job of illustrating the fact that Ho Chi Minh's army was more freedom fighter than communist at the outset and how the US could have positioned it as the end of colonialism rather than a fight against communism if not for anti-communist fervor and misguided loyalty to de Gaulle following WWII.

 

[Stoney]

While Ken Burns is generally losing his fastball, I thought the first installment did a good job of illustrating the fact that Ho Chi Minh's army was more freedom fighter than communist at the outset and how the US could have positioned it as the end of colonialism rather than a fight against communism if not for anti-communist fervor and misguided loyalty to de Gaulle following WWII.

This echoes one of @BTExpress' favored themes and is what struck me as well. Seems Ho Chi Minh dearly wanted to be our friend and ally when the mess began (and was so during WWII), admiringly quoted our founding fathers, implored us not to get hung up on the communism thing as that wasn't really what he was primarily about, etc.

But instead of responding to his overtures, we essentially forced him into the Soviet bloc corner with our intransigence and insistence on unconditionally backing France in its efforts to re-assert colonial rule.

Such an utter miscalculation. If only we'd had the balls at the outset to tell France "Sorry, your days of being their colonial masters are over."

 

[Inky_Wretch]

This will be atop my mind when watching future episodes.

Ken Burns' new Vietnam documentary dismisses the origins of the disastrous conflict

 

[bumpy mcgee]

I liked the jumping back and forth, it showed how the Americans doomed themselves making the same mistakes the French did, worked especially well considering the title of the first episode.

 

[micropolitan guy]

Just read a book on Eisenhower, and how he was adamant not to involve us in a jungle war beyond the very limited role of 500-600 combat advisors. Kennedy came in talking like Mr. Tough Guy who had to stand up to the Russians/communism to change his image of a lazy rich kid who never did much in the House or Senate, got us involved deeper and deeper to the point where Johnson could easily make the next stop toward major involvement.

The book sees Eisenhower's farewell speech, not just the military-industrial complex portion, as a warning to Kennedy, which he and his band of Ivy League elitists (who the author terms a bunch of "don't worry, we got this" kids who were in over their heads) ignored.

Easily one of the stupidest and most costly examples of American foreign policy in any century, and one so avoidable had Kennedy/Johnson's war hawks listened to others who saw it for what it was, an anti-colonialism civil war. Instead they bought into the stupidity of the domino theory.

 

[dixiehack]

Military advisors are the "Just the tip" of warfare.

 

[cranberry]

Just read a book on Eisenhower, and how he was adamant not to involve us in a jungle war beyond the very limited role of 500-600 combat advisors. Kennedy came in talking like Mr. Tough Guy who had to stand up to the Russians/communism to change his image of a lazy rich kid who never did much in the House or Senate, got us involved deeper and deeper to the point where Johnson could easily make the next stop toward major involvement.

The book sees Eisenhower's farewell speech, not just the military-industrial complex portion, as a warning to Kennedy, which he and his band of Ivy League elitists (who the author terms a bunch of "don't worry, we got this" kids who were in over their heads) ignored.

Easily one of the stupidest and most costly examples of American foreign policy in any century, and one so avoidable had Kennedy/Johnson's war hawks listened to others who saw it for what it was, an anti-colonialism civil war. Instead they bought into the stupidity of the domino theory.

Did the book discuss Eisenhower overthrowing governments in Guatemala and Iran?

 

[trifectarich]

Part II: The opening interview with the former soldier from Missouri was outstanding. The way he described being out there on night lookout duty, afraid to hit the transmit button on his radio because he feared the enemy was so close; how he tried to explain to his little kids why he's still afraid of the dark . . . a riveting couple of minutes.

I hope the people at the White House are watching this.

 

[Stoney]

I thought the entire part 2 was outstanding. I didn't realize just how awful and hated the Diem regime was with its own people (to the point where they're willing to burn themselves alive in protest). Jeez were we ever backing the wrong horse there.

I think Cold War America might've embraced Satan himself if he just labeled himself the anti-commie option.

 

[dixiehack]

I think Cold War America might've roundly embraced Satan himself if he just labeled himself the anti-commie option.

Good thing we aren't suckers for that kind of thinking anymore!