The Royko Thread
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CarlSpackler
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DyePack said:
This is like arguing with the Bush Administration.
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zeke12
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You think comparing Hemingway and Royko is apples and oranges?
Where do you think Hemingway developed his style, the one that revolutionized modern English?
(Pssst. Whitlock! You better be on this one.)
Where do you think Hemingway developed his style, the one that revolutionized modern English?
(Pssst. Whitlock! You better be on this one.)
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zeke12
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The Kansas City Star.
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zeke12
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pallister
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What's wrong with dingy bars?
slappy4428
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Hemingway wrote the screenplay for MASH? Hadn't he been dead for 10 years?Ben_Hecht said:
A passage from one of my favorite Royko columns on John Riggins
Whom Can an Old Sport Look Up To ?
After quenching his thirst several times over the evening, Riggins apparrently observed that Justice O'connor was either shy or reserved and did not appear as festave as the the others were.
Now some people are so self centered that if they are in the company of somebody shy or reserved the do nothing to draw them out. They just let the person sit there and miss all the fun
But Riggins did the correct thing. He tried to draw Justice O'connor into the merriment He is quoted as saying "hey Sandy baby lossen up. You're too tight".
A little later when speeches were being made Riggins became Drowsy. Thats natural when political speeches are being made.
So Riggins flopped his head down on the table and went to sleep.
Royko on Steve Garvey - "I'm sure he is a nice fellow. but if an ordinary person talked like Steve Garvey, everybody would get up and move to the other end of the bar."
Whom Can an Old Sport Look Up To ?
After quenching his thirst several times over the evening, Riggins apparrently observed that Justice O'connor was either shy or reserved and did not appear as festave as the the others were.
Now some people are so self centered that if they are in the company of somebody shy or reserved the do nothing to draw them out. They just let the person sit there and miss all the fun
But Riggins did the correct thing. He tried to draw Justice O'connor into the merriment He is quoted as saying "hey Sandy baby lossen up. You're too tight".
A little later when speeches were being made Riggins became Drowsy. Thats natural when political speeches are being made.
So Riggins flopped his head down on the table and went to sleep.
Royko on Steve Garvey - "I'm sure he is a nice fellow. but if an ordinary person talked like Steve Garvey, everybody would get up and move to the other end of the bar."
buckweaver
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Ben_Hecht said:
Ring Lardner, FWIW, wrote *nothing* like most journalists are taught to write today. And that's not even because of his time -- a time when many sports scribes wrote flowery prose -- it's because Ring Lardner's style was uniquely his own. Read the "You Know Me, Al" stories or some of his "World Serious" columns ... up until 1919, of course. That's not journalism -- that's literature. (Both can be very good, but it's not the same.)
if a young Hemingway was trying to imitate Lardner's style, and I don't know enough to say he was or wasn't, then Ernie certainly wasn't honing his style writing like a newspaperman. Writing like Lardner is not the same. I haven't read any of Hem'way's stories with the KC Star -- I'm sure the job helped influence him to write as concise as he did, somehow -- but I seriously doubt that was the turning point or even the beginning for his "revolution of modern English."
I'm with Dye on this one: Hemingway and Royko are hard to compare. Doesn't mean they're both not great at what they did, because they were, but it's two different sports. Baseball and cricket. Same tools -- a ball, a bat, fielders, bases/wickets -- but two completely different games.
and, Buck: the Ring / Hem story is a true one.
Remember, this was HIGH SCHOOL. Hem obviously didn't emerge from that experience fully-formed. Lardner
at his best was a master of precise writing / sentence structure -- and the earlier that's learned, the better.
Remember, this was HIGH SCHOOL. Hem obviously didn't emerge from that experience fully-formed. Lardner
at his best was a master of precise writing / sentence structure -- and the earlier that's learned, the better.
buckweaver
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Ben_Hecht said:
That's fine. I'll take your word for it.
My point, though, was that Lardner didn't write similar to the way Hemingway eventually did (i.e. very concise writing; short, almost choppy sentences). Ring often used long, free-flowing, often nonsensical sentences that were more reminiscient of James Joyce than the style you seem to be talking about. Again, read "Alibi Ike" or "The Immigrunts." There's plenty of short sentences, but also a lot of what most people would call "imprecise" structure, too.
I'm sure Ring influenced Hem, no doubt, but not because of that.
buckweaver
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Ben_Hecht said:
True enough. Ring's later style was different than his early (i.e. sports) style. Then again, that would negate your point about high school, because Hem graduated high school during WWI, started working for the KC Star in 1917. But anyway ...
And no, Eddie's got his own "wife and kiddies" to
