The references dilemma

[STLIrish]

It's quite likely this has been discussed at length in the past. If so, feel free to chide me and direct me to the appropriate thread, but I have a question: How do you handle a request for "three professional references" when applying for a job?

Specifically, I've been at my current job a few years, and I've done my best work here. I'm starting to look around, and some papers ask for references up front, along with the standard clips and a resume. Now, I'm pretty sure my current boss would give me a good reference, and, if I was the hiring editor at the next gig, I'd be more interested in what my current boss thought of me than the thoughts of someone I worked for five years ago. But I don't want to tip off my current employer that I'm looking, especially not this early in the game (after all, I'm just sending in an application). So I'm disinclined to put them on the list.

What do you do when asked for references this early? I know some people list sources, but I'm not quite comfortable with that. Perhaps a trusted fellow-reporter? Or do I just go with the old references, who'd probably say nice things but don't really know what I've been up to lately. Any advice?

 

[Songbird]

Give them Seinfeld's phone number and tell him to say you're his top latex salesman.

Seriously ... it's a tough call since you don't want your current boss to know. Someone else here might have a better answer.

 

[SF_Express]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

Then, assuming you're dealing with reasonable human beings -- because it's a place you want to work -- you give them other references and then say, "You're probably going to want to talk to my current boss, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't take that step until you're pretty certain your interested and pretty far along in the process" or something like that.

 

[HoopsMcCann]

hope to god that one of your references isn't up for the same job, right sf?

 

[SF_Express]

hope to god that one of your references isn't up for the same job, right sf?

Well, yeah, that can get sticky, can't it? :)

 

[Mira]

I was in the same situation before I landed my current gig. After years of old references, I decided to use some fellow reporters who I worked with for a spell and knew my work and work habits.

Or if you've worked on a collegiate beat, how about an SID from a university?

I just don't think working over a current boss is in your best interests, unless you're itching to get out that bad and he/she knows it and likes you.

 

[Claws for Concern]

If you attended college and worked on the newspaper, how about the newspaper adviser or editor in chief?

Perhaps someone who can speak about you as a person (character, etc.) who is outside the biz. Never hurts.

 

[deskslave]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

Then, assuming you're dealing with reasonable human beings -- because it's a place you want to work -- you give them other references and then say, "You're probably going to want to talk to my current boss, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't take that step until you're pretty certain your interested and pretty far along in the process" or something like that.

I'm always disinclined to do this when they specifically ask for references. To me, it's deliberately ignoring a request in the job ad, along the lines of calling when the ad says no calls.

There are other professionals in your newsroom besides your boss, though. Perhaps an assistant editor, or a coworker on a more high-profile beat. I think most people understand that you don't put down your current boss.

That's just another reason why it's a bit harder to get those first couple of jobs. Think creatively, though, and you'll figure it out.

 

[tyler durden 71351]

You think it's a good idea to use an SID or a PR guy you deal with as a reference? I don't know, I've always thought that kind of odd.
Former co-workers, indirect supervisors and direct bosses from a couple of years ago are always the best way to go. And don't use drinking buddies/ex-girlfriends/ex-boyfriends from the office...pick people who you would hire to work for you and who can make a good impression.

 

[ServeItUp]

And for the love of whoever or whatever you worship, make sure they're people you keep in touch with on a regular basis; meaning, let them know you're on the hunt and that they can expect a call sometime soon.

 

[Pringle]

Please don't use an SID as a reference. First of all, if you've done your job, most of them are probably MFing you behind closed doors at least a couple times a year. My SID has practically tried to get me fired from my current job, let alone beating the drum for me to move up.

It just looks like you kiss up to your sources if you put that kind of reference down. Plus, if you don't get the job or don't end up taking it, do you really want to feel indebted to the SID for putting in good words for you?

Stick with people in the business.

 

[loveyabye]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

I disagree with this tactic, because I feel like putting that on your resume is making the employer do extra work they might not feel like doing.

 

[Editude]

Ignore the references question until the end. If all the other aspects fit, then pass on some names. It is not a good tactic at the beginning.

 

[Ira_Schoffel]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

I disagree with this tactic, because I feel like putting that on your resume is making the employer do extra work they might not feel like doing.

Agree 100 percent. I've argued this point on here for years, and I'm not inclined to do it again. But putting your references on your resume can only help you. The right references can lift you to the top of the pile. Not listing references leaves you back with the rest of the pack. It's probably not going to doom you, but you're wasting a golden opportunity by not listing them. And I've never heard of an employer calling references BEFORE they've actually gotten into the meat of the interview process. At that point, you can ask them to wait to call your current employer. They'll understand.

 

[STLIrish]

Thanks. Helpful wisdom as always from the SportsJournalists.com crowd.

 

[Mira]

As a beat writer, I've never severely criticized or thrown the team I cover under a truck. I still see no harm in using an SID as a reference if you have a professional and long-standing relationship with them. If I were a columnist, that's a completely different situation. Unless you work in a huge city and are considering jumping to a competitor, why would you feel indebted to the SID? It's a reference, not someone expecting payback.

And I would never use a PR rep as a reference.

 

[Bears00]

An SID is a PR rep, in my opinion. The only way I'd get a positive response from our local SID is because he'd be trying to get rid of me. I'm glad it is this way - means I'm doing my job.

 

[Pringle]

As a beat writer, I've never severely criticized or thrown the team I cover under a truck. I still see no harm in using an SID as a reference if you have a professional and long-standing relationship with them. If I were a columnist, that's a completely different situation. Unless you work in a huge city and are considering jumping to a competitor, why would you feel indebted to the SID? It's a reference, not someone expecting payback.

And I would never use a PR rep as a reference.

You don't have to throw them under a truck to **** off an SID. Just in the last couple weeks, my SID went bonkers because I dared to follow up an unflattering story that broke in another state about my school. It was something that had to be done, but my guy thought we should have suppressed it, trying to argue that "you guys should be better than that," etc., etc.

If you cover a beat, these kinds of stories happen from time to time, and SIDs go nuts because they feel like it's on them to keep negative news out of the media. Logic doesn't rule in these cases.

So I guess we'll agree to disagree - putting an SID down as a reference, if I was a sports editor, would indicate to me that the guy might not have been willing to stand up to the school he covers.

 

[SF_Express]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

I disagree with this tactic, because I feel like putting that on your resume is making the employer do extra work they might not feel like doing.

Agree 100 percent. I've argued this point on here for years, and I'm not inclined to do it again. But putting your references on your resume can only help you. The right references can lift you to the top of the pile. Not listing references leaves you back with the rest of the pack. It's probably not going to doom you, but you're wasting a golden opportunity by not listing them. And I've never heard of an employer calling references BEFORE they've actually gotten into the meat of the interview process. At that point, you can ask them to wait to call your current employer. They'll understand.

Well, Ira, I must of had a had a hell of a lot of stretch runs over the years, because I've never listed anything but "upon request" on my resume, and it apparently has never hurt me.

Additionally, I've never given a second thought to seeing it on somebody else's resume.

Extra work? That'd be "Hey, interesting resume and cover letter. We're interested. Can you send us some references?"

 

[loveyabye]

Well, on the resume you do, "references upon request."

I disagree with this tactic, because I feel like putting that on your resume is making the employer do extra work they might not feel like doing.

Agree 100 percent. I've argued this point on here for years, and I'm not inclined to do it again. But putting your references on your resume can only help you. The right references can lift you to the top of the pile. Not listing references leaves you back with the rest of the pack. It's probably not going to doom you, but you're wasting a golden opportunity by not listing them. And I've never heard of an employer calling references BEFORE they've actually gotten into the meat of the interview process. At that point, you can ask them to wait to call your current employer. They'll understand.

Well, Ira, I must of had a had a hell of a lot of stretch runs over the years, because I've never listed anything but "upon request" on my resume, and it apparently has never hurt me.

Additionally, I've never given a second thought to seeing it on somebody else's resume.

Extra work? That'd be "Hey, interesting resume and cover letter. We're interested. Can you send us some references?"

Perhaps over the years it has been easier to get a job than it is now. I'm glad it never hurt your opportunities, but I've talked to numerous recruiters at a few informal job fairs the past few years and when there's time, asked for advice on resumes. Many of them bring up this point.

In the job I'm in now, the managing editor immediately made a connection with my resume because he saw one of my refs was a college professor of mine, a guy he used to work with at another newspaper on the other side of the country. I never would have guessed that connection.