The Mitchell Report: The question I haven't heard answered.

[DanOregon]

I've hear a lot about players seeing other athletes juicing and wanting to stay competetive. But I haven't heard yet why players just didn't narc on the other players and drop a dime to the feds etc. I know there is a "code" and everything. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for a player who cheated "because everyone else was doing it." There was a significant code of silence among all involved and whether they shot up or didn't shoot up I think the entire era should be noted in the record books. They are all to blame.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Dan, that's about as rhetorical as questions get. The 2002 Giants may have loathed Barry Bonds. We know some of them did. But they needed him if they wanted to win. So they kind of ignored everything. Bonds being not exactly a hail-fellow-well-met, that was easy to do.
Cheating to win is a very difficult problem for a society as fixated on competition as is ours.

 

[BTExpress]

I will put the 1930 season up against any from the steroid era for ridiculous numbers that never should have happened.

The National League hit better than .300, for crying out loud.

When we decide to asterisk Hack Wilson's RBI record . . . we can discuss what recent numbers to nullify.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Carmelo can tell you why:

 

[deskslave]

Exactly how many Mitchell Report threads do we need? I count at least five seven on the front page alone.

 

[Tom Petty]

I will put the 1930 season up against any from the steroid era for ridiculous numbers that never should have happened.

The National League hit better than .300, for crying out loud.

When we decide to asterisk Hack Wilson's RBI record . . . we can discuss what recent numbers to nullify.

players cheated in 1930?

 

[buckweaver]

I will put the 1930 season up against any from the steroid era for ridiculous numbers that never should have happened.

The National League hit better than .300, for crying out loud.

When we decide to asterisk Hack Wilson's RBI record . . . we can discuss what recent numbers to nullify.

players cheated in 1930?

Athletes always have cheated. Always.

 

[BTExpress]

players cheated in 1930?

Stealing signs.
Corking bats.
Emery boards.
Throwing games.
Taking greenies.

Since before 1900.

But the reason I bring up 1930 is because it obviously isn't "cheating" that bothers everyone --- since hundreds of players have done it all through history, long before steroids --- but how this cheating affects the hallowed stats.

And 1930 simply proves the hallowed stats aren't so hallowed.

 

[Write-brained]

players cheated in 1930?

Stealing signs.
Corking bats.
Emery boards.
Throwing games.
Taking greenies.

Since before 1900.

But the reason I bring up 1930 is because it obviously isn't "cheating" that bothers everyone --- since hundreds of players have done it all through history, long before steroids --- but how this cheating affects the hallowed stats.

And 1930 simply proves the hallowed stats aren't so hallowed.

I stole signs playing high school ball. It's not cheating, especially if the other team isn't going to hide them well.

The others? Yes.

 

[Tom Petty]

players cheated in 1930?

Stealing signs.
Corking bats.
Emery boards.
Throwing games.
Taking greenies.

Since before 1900.

But the reason I bring up 1930 is because it obviously isn't "cheating" that bothers everyone --- since hundreds of players have done it all through history, long before steroids --- but how this cheating affects the hallowed stats.

And 1930 simply proves the hallowed stats aren't so hallowed.

any center fielders go from hitting 16 HR in one year to 50 the next and then 18 the next season? i mean really, give me some freakishly obvious numbers such as brady anderson's that took place in 1930 then i'll buy in.

 

[buckweaver]

any center fielders go from hitting 16 HR in one year to 50 the next and then 18 the next season? i mean really, give me some freakishly obvious numbers such as brady anderson's that took place in 1930 then i'll buy in.

Babe Herman -- 21 HRs in 1929, 35 HRs in 1930. Never more than 18 in any other season. Hit .381 in 1929, .393 in 1930. Fifty points higher than he hit in any other season, seventy points above his career avearge.

Adam Comorosky -- .313, 12 HR, 119 RBI at age 24 in 1930. Never hit above .286, 4 HR or 48 RBI in any other season.

Woody English -- .335, 14 HR, 59 RBI in 1930. Never hit more than 3 HRs in any season before or since. Career .286 hitter.

Glenn Wright -- 22 home runs in 1930. 21 home runs the rest of his career.

Would you like more?

 

[BTExpress]

An entire LEAGUE hit more than .300.

It does not get more freakish than that.

But since you asked . . .

Hack Wilson:

1930: 146 R, 56 HR, 190 RBI

1931: 66 R, 13 HR, 61 RBI

1932: 77 R, 23 HR, 125 RBI

 

[Tom Petty]

any center fielders go from hitting 16 HR in one year to 50 the next and then 18 the next season? i mean really, give me some freakishly obvious numbers such as brady anderson's that took place in 1930 then i'll buy in.

Babe Herman -- 21 HRs in 1929, 35 HRs in 1930. Never more than 18 in any other season. Hit .381 in 1929, .393 in 1930. Fifty points higher than he hit in any other season, seventy points above his career avearge.

Adam Comorosky -- .313, 12 HR, 119 RBI at age 24 in 1930. Never hit above .286, 4 HR or 48 RBI in any other season.

Woody English -- .335, 14 HR, 59 RBI in 1930. Never hit more than 3 HRs in any season before or since. Career .286 hitter.

Glenn Wright -- 22 home runs in 1930. 21 home runs the rest of his career.

Would you like more?

so you're saying all those guys almost account for 34 extra home runs?

 

[Tom Petty]

An entire LEAGUE hit more than .300.

It does not get more freakish than that.

But since you asked . . .

Hack Wilson:

1930: 146 R, 56 HR, 190 RBI

1931: 66 R, 13 HR, 61 RBI

1932: 77 R, 23 HR, 125 RBI

**** buck. you would have started to sell me with wilson's numbers. that's insane.

 

[Chi City 81]

191 RBIs, actually.

 

[buckweaver]

The entire National League hit .303, Tom. How much more insane do you want to get?

 

[Tom Petty]

i like to think i know quite a bit about the history of baseball, but the 30s is an era i never really looked at. why 1930 guys? what was so special about 1930?

 

[spnited]

juiced ball

 

[dooley_womack1]

Players have had wild swings in stats that have nothing to do with anything sinister. Some players get injured and don't heal properly. Sometimes the opponent figures out how to pitch to him and he never really adjusts. Sometimes ballpark conditions and dimensions. And sometimes a player is just destined to have one really good season. Let's not make everything in baseball a Roswell.

 

[buckweaver]

Yep. Rabbit ball basically explains it. Baker Bowl explains the Phillies numbers.

1930 for hitters was like 1968 for pitchers. Perfect storm for all hell to break loose. Then, the cycle swings back the other way. Right now, we're in a hitter's cycle -- and not all of it has to do with steroids.