Softball Scoring Question

[KYSportsWriter]

Scenario: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, one out. Ball bunted down third-base line; third baseman throws home, thinking runner was coming home, but runner goes back to third. There's no play at first and catcher can't make the throw.

Single or fielder's choice?

 

[Tom Petty]

Scenario: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, one out. Ball bunted down third-base line; third baseman throws home, thinking runner was coming home, but runner goes back to third. There's no play at first and catcher can't make the throw.

Single or fielder's choice?

would the player have beat the throw to first? benefit goes to the pitcher.

 

[KYSportsWriter]

Scenario: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, one out. Ball bunted down third-base line; third baseman throws home, thinking runner was coming home, but runner goes back to third. There's no play at first and catcher can't make the throw.

Single or fielder's choice?

would the player have beat the throw to first? benefit goes to the pitcher.

The catcher couldn't have beaten the runner.

But if the third baseman had thrown to first instead of home, it would be an out.

 

[Tom Petty]

Scenario: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, one out. Ball bunted down third-base line; third baseman throws home, thinking runner was coming home, but runner goes back to third. There's no play at first and catcher can't make the throw.

Single or fielder's choice?

would the player have beat the throw to first? benefit goes to the pitcher.

The catcher couldn't have beaten the runner.

But if the third baseman had thrown to first instead of home, it would be an out.

FC.

 

[NX]

What TP said.

 

[Central-KY-Kid]

I was the one who covered the play in question and I felt had the third baseman come up throwing to first, the hitter doesn't get there safely.

And I can see why she threw home (to either give the catcher the chance to tag out the runner on third OR to keep the runner on third). Had the third baseman gone directly to first, the team could have gotten the out, but a double play at home would have been tough.

For the record, the home team (the team in the field at the time) ruled it a single, costing the pitcher a no-hitter.

I called one of the top stat people in our area and he ran it threw his computer and told me you could input it either way.

I can see either way: FC or 1B. Granted the third baseman did not get an out, she did try to go to a base (even though the runner on third retreated).

And if it didn't affect a no-hitter between two rivals, we wouldn't have brought it up. If ruled a 1B, the pitcher has a nine-strikeout one-hitter instead of the complete-game no-hitter.

 

[spnited]

Fielder's choice. No other way to score it.


"FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and,
instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner."

 

[Central-KY-Kid]

Fielder's choice. No other way to score it.


"FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and,
instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner."

Again, I'm baffled.

The preceding runner did not have to move (as the bases weren't loaded). And had the third baseman thrown to first, the girl is probably out at first (but in turn, the girl at third, one of the fastest in the region, probably scores). The girl at third scored on the next play on a bunt as the first baseman tagged out the bunter and threw to home for the double play but the throw home was late.

 

[HandsomeHarley]

Fielder's choice. If a runner on first advanced to second, it becomes a fielder's choice and sacrifice. If no runners advanced, it's FC all the way.

Remember, you have to account for every base.

 

[Tom Petty]

there IS no other way to score it.

 

[deskslave]

Gotta be honest...don't see that the no-hitter is that big a deal. If there were runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, clearly she wasn't pitching THAT effectively. And having seen just enough softball, I know it's relatively easy to score in that game without benefit of a hit. A walk, a stolen base and two bunts, for example.

 

[slappy4428]

Was she bunting to advance the runner or for the hit?

 

[spnited]

Was she bunting to advance the runner or for the hit?

Runners on second and third, slap...so when the runner on third doesn't advance, there is no advance, so no sac.

straight fielder's choice.

 

[slappy4428]

just checking...
A lot of times, (different situation) when a softball player bunts to advance and reaches safely, it's credited as a hit instead of a fielder's choice, even though no play is made and the intent of the bunt is to advance the runner.

 

[Central-KY-Kid]

just checking...
A lot of times, (different situation) when a softball player bunts to advance and reaches safely, it's credited as a hit instead of a fielder's choice, even though no play is made and the intent of the bunt is to advance the runner.

I could very well be a softball idiot, because a play like that happened in the same game last night and I ruled it a hit (because the fielder, in this case the pitcher, didn't attempt a play to any base). With runners on first and second and no outs, the batter bunted right back to the pitcher. The pitcher fields it cleanly and looked to throw to third (but never released the ball), but the third baseman was also playing the bunt and when the pitcher turned to throw, saw there was no play. She then turned to first, but the first baseman was likewise playing up on the bunt and had no throw to first either (although the runner would have easily been out had the first baseman been covering first).

According to the way the fielder's choice definition is written, it's NOT a fielder's choice because the ball was never actually thrown, right?

As far as the original play in question - in which both coaches ruled it a single because although the ball was thrown, the preceding runner was not forced to advance - it seems to me like another instance wouldn't have a definitive answer:

Runner on second (but not first). Ball hit to shortstop. Instead of throwing to first for a sure-fire out to get the out, chooses to throw to third on a non-force out to keep the runner in scoring position from advancing. Granted the play was made on a preceding runner, the preceding runner never attempted to move and just stayed at second. Is that still a fielder's choice?

 

[Central-KY-Kid]

Gotta be honest...don't see that the no-hitter is that big a deal. If there were runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, clearly she wasn't pitching THAT effectively. And having seen just enough softball, I know it's relatively easy to score in that game without benefit of a hit. A walk, a stolen base and two bunts, for example.

Actually it was third and first with one out. Struck out the first batter. Walked the second. Second batter steals second and on a passed ball/wild pitch which walked the third batter, second batter moved to third.

Pitcher struck out six of the first 10 batters she faced and finished with 9Ks, 1HBP and 2BB. Not a bad pitching night for a freshman.

And you're right: It is easy in softball to score without a hit (especially when they go to the international tiebreaker rule in extra innings).

If this had been a coach calling in a non-district game or game in a tournament or game against an out-of-area opponent, I wouldn't have made a big deal. Or had the pitcher already given up five or six hits.

But since I was actually at the game (so was the local TV station, and not just for highlights, but for delayed broadcast) and the play affected a no-hitter between district rivals, I felt the need to ask.

I originally ruled fielder's choice. Ex-college player convinced me it was a single since the third baseman tried to make a play on a preceding runner who was NOT forced to move when the third baseman could have reasonably thrown out the runner at first.

Since the home book (which was the one that "cost" the pitcher her no-no) was official, I went with it. My sports editor (who usually has the final say in my articles) originally said single. Kysportswriter and I waffled over it.

For the record, prep sports in my area get more coverage than two large D-I schools. They are in essence are pro teams (especially now, in times of budget tightening, any trip across the county line must be pre-approved by the managing editor).

 

[Barsuk]

I originally ruled fielder's choice. Ex-college player convinced me it was a single since the third baseman tried to make a play on a preceding runner who was NOT forced to move <b>when the third baseman could have reasonably thrown out the runner at first. </b>

This is the very definition of a fielder's choice. I'm not sure why there's a debate. If the scorer deems the batter would have been out had the fielder thrown to first, it's a fielder's choice, cut and dried. It doesn't matter whether the runner at third was forced.

Why would you award the batter a hit, when everyone is in agreement she would have been out had the throw gone to first? That's just common sense.