Simmons and Klosterman on death of newspapers ...

[Rhody31]

It's the 3/13 podcast.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2864045

Very interesting debate between the two.
I agree with Simmons on many points (unions, lack of younger columnists) but disagree with him on a few.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Just shut up, Bill. OK?

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Did they talk about the astounding debt the big companies have taken on which are what is effectively killing newspapers? Cuz it's not the unions or lack of younger columnists that are doing them in.

 

[Rhody31]

Klosterman talks about how newspapers got caught up in the immediacy of reporting stories as opposed to coming out the next day with better reported, more informative, longer stories.

They both also bring up the point of why newspapers were so quick to give away their product when the internet started rolling as opposed to charging 50 cents a day like they do with the printed copy.

TSP, taking on debt was a big deal, but you have to admit unions did a good job of, as Klosterman puts it, "raise the floor for salaries." That in turn allowed for high-paying writers and, as communism taught us, not everyone will try their hardest when they know they're going to get paid.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Klosterman talks about how newspapers got caught up in the immediacy of reporting stories as opposed to coming out the next day with better reported, more informative, longer stories.

They both also bring up the point of why newspapers were so quick to give away their product when the internet started rolling as opposed to charging 50 cents a day like they do with the printed copy.

TSP, taking on debt was a big deal, but you have to admit unions did a good job of, as Klosterman puts it, "raise the floor for salaries." That in turn allowed for high-paying writers and, as communism taught us, not everyone will try their hardest when they know they're going to get paid.

Oh, yes, I forgot -- unions = communism. Those fools, working to improve their lot! They should have known it would lead to the collapse of the industry.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

What in the **** are you talking about?
Communism?
I repeat, what in the **** are you talking about?

 

[Bullwinkle]

Simmons, on why he left the Boston Herald:

"I looked at the landscape and thought, holy crap, my God, I'm going to be 35 and I MIGHT have a chance to cover the Bruins. That's my best-case scenario right now, because nobody ahead of me is going to leave.... Is that a good thing? If somebody like me, obviously I had some talent, I left ... I knew I was never going to get a chance until I was 35 to hang out in the freakin Bruins locker room and get quotes from Ray Bourque."

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Simmons, the guy who demanded to go from agate clerk to lead columnist at the Globe, is giving pointers on the newspaper business?

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Simmons, on why he left the Boston Herald:

"I looked at the landscape and thought, holy crap, my God, I'm going to be 35 and I MIGHT have a chance to cover the Bruins. That's my best-case scenario right now, because nobody ahead of me is going to leave.... Is that a good thing? If somebody like me, obviously I had some talent, I left ... I knew I was never going to get a chance until I was 35 to hang out in the freakin Bruins locker room and get quotes from Ray Bourque."

Hence my original post.
Believe me. The Herald didn't have a union worthy of the name. Ever.The unions didn't keep him down. The Man didn't keep him down. If I have to read one more score-settling tantrum from this dweeb, it will be too many.

 

[Rhody31]

Communism you get paid for work as much as the next guy, regardless of the job you do. Ideally, you love your job and continue to work hard. Unfortunately, humanity doesn't work that way.

The unions work to reward members for their work. Ideally, workers continue to work hard and put out a product. Some do, some don't.

At least that's my interpretation of communism. If it isn't, then my high school teacher failed me.

Seriously, this podcast deserves a listen from even the most crotchety of SportsJournalists.com members.

 

[RickStain]

At least that's my interpretation of communism. If it isn't, then my high school teacher failed me.

There was definitely a failure somewhere along the line. I don't know if I'd be so quick to blame some teacher in the distant past.

That's not what communism is.

 

[Rhody31]

Simmons, on why he left the Boston Herald:

"I looked at the landscape and thought, holy crap, my God, I'm going to be 35 and I MIGHT have a chance to cover the Bruins. That's my best-case scenario right now, because nobody ahead of me is going to leave.... Is that a good thing? If somebody like me, obviously I had some talent, I left ... I knew I was never going to get a chance until I was 35 to hang out in the freakin Bruins locker room and get quotes from Ray Bourque."

I think he has a valid point, and I think his "hang out" was a little tongue-in-cheek.
There are a lot of good writers who churn out tremendous copy at small papers and even bigger ones but cannot move up because there are older reporters mailing it in. This doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens more than we'd like to admit.

 

[In Exile]

Just before he joined the WWL.com, Simmons tried to write a newspaper-sized column for a magazine that covers the Red Sox. He was horrible at it - absolutely brutal. Could not write to the 700 word space.

Good for him, that he found his place, but it was never, ever going to be at a newspaper, not in a million years. Some people are good at some things and bad at others, and BS was bad at newspaper. The only thing blocking him at the Herald was himself.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

At least that's my interpretation of communism. If it isn't, then my high school teacher failed me.

Well, they do have a thing called college.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Oh, for ****'s sake.
That may be the case. It may not be.
But it's not the reason newspapers are failing. It's not within the same geological epoch of why newspapers are failing. It's not the same area code of the same ballpark of why newspapers are failing. The Boston Herald would be in exactly the same shape it's in right now even if it had given the genius that is Bill Simmons the job he apparently believes he was warranted from birth.

 

[Rhody31]

Back to the communism thing quick - i was under the impression part of communism was people working jobs and everyone being paid the same. Part of the reason it floundered was most didn't bother working, so people who did work also stopped working.

Is that not even in the ballpark?

And TSP, I managed to keep myself out of history class except for one on early American history.

 

[RickStain]

Back to the communism thing quick - i was under the impression part of communism was people working jobs and everyone being paid the same. Part of the reason it floundered was most didn't bother working, so people who did work also stopped working.

Is that not even in the ballpark?

It's kind of, sort of in the ballpark.

I'd call that the "Overly simplistic argument written for a libertarian public relations group's marketing pamphlet targeted at indoctrinating sixth-graders."

 

[Rhody31]

Back to the communism thing quick - i was under the impression part of communism was people working jobs and everyone being paid the same. Part of the reason it floundered was most didn't bother working, so people who did work also stopped working.

Is that not even in the ballpark?

It's kind of, sort of in the ballpark.

I'd call that the "Overly simplistic argument written for a libertarian public relations group's marketing pamphlet targeted at indoctrinating sixth-graders."

Think you just described the textbooks at the high school i went to, which was described by a cable network for it's popular television show as part of the "inner city."

 

[SoCalScribe]

I wish Bill had gotten his wish and gotten promoted pronto, at his shop or another one. Then he likely would've been laid off or been non-renewed by now, and then he'd actually have a legit beef with newspapers.

Klosterman is quite intelligent and often interesting, although I personally find him and many of his views insufferable. I always consider it a significant endorsement of a man/woman if I find them interesting even if I strongly disagree with some/much of what they have to say. Klosterman falls into this group for me

 

[Zombie Vonnegut]

As much as I admire the work of both these fellas from time to time, I can't think of two people less qualified to weigh in on the matter.

And we need to do a mandatory unit on political, economic and philosophical systems of the world through history right away.