fishhack2009
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MileHigh said:
Nice column.
I hope the people who make their living degrading gays and lesbians are pleased with themselves.
RIP Mike Penner
- Thread starter Mr. X
- Start date
Nice column.
I hope the people who make their living degrading gays and lesbians are pleased with themselves.
Mizzougrad96
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It's nice to see Reilly write the way he's capable of writing.
Very thoughtful column.
Very thoughtful column.
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It's a nice column but, really, offers nothing new, and nothing beyond what almost anyone would say under the circumstances.
I'm actually not sure this should have been written -- at least not at this point, and not without either some new information regarding the circumstances of Mike's death, or the reasons/emotions and circumstances in his life since his change back to being Mike, or else, the inclusion of the thoughts/perspectives of either his brother, former wife or someone else who was closer to the situation.
Again, I don't mean to diss Reilly's sentiments, but...
I'm actually not sure this should have been written -- at least not at this point, and not without either some new information regarding the circumstances of Mike's death, or the reasons/emotions and circumstances in his life since his change back to being Mike, or else, the inclusion of the thoughts/perspectives of either his brother, former wife or someone else who was closer to the situation.
Again, I don't mean to diss Reilly's sentiments, but...
Ace
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WriteThinking said:
Yeah, when I read it and when Reilly was making a point of how close he and his wife were, I was wondering what attempts he made to reach out during those months when Mike/Christine was shutting people out.
Still, it's a heartbreaking story. I wish you could flip a switch and fix what makes people feel bad about themselves.
oscaroscaroscar
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Well, Reilly did say Penner/Daniels didn't return calls, texts and emails. I think it was a heartbreaking column and disagree anyone could have written it or that it offered nothing new. It offered Reilly's own thoughts as a friend and I thought he captured them quite well. I also think the way he showed the difference between Mike Penner and Christine Daniels was revealing, though I can't say I've ready every story on the situation. But I thought through Reilly's eyes of a friend it explained quite well why Mike wanted or needed the change and how much it initially helped to become Christine.
And actually even if it offered nothing new, having another major voice show the human side of this whole horrible situation can't be a bad thing, I would think.
And actually even if it offered nothing new, having another major voice show the human side of this whole horrible situation can't be a bad thing, I would think.
Ace
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Oscar,
Maybe I read it too cynically, but here is the graf that got me....
Reilly goes from liberally using "I" and "we" to saying simply "he didn't return e-mails, texts or calls." He didn't say that he didn't return "our" e-mails, texts or calls.
Knowing how some people work, I wondered if Reilly made any of those e-mails, texts or calls or was writing to make it appear as if he did but was actually reporting the experience of others who had tried to reach out.
Maybe I read it too cynically, but here is the graf that got me....
Reilly goes from liberally using "I" and "we" to saying simply "he didn't return e-mails, texts or calls." He didn't say that he didn't return "our" e-mails, texts or calls.
Knowing how some people work, I wondered if Reilly made any of those e-mails, texts or calls or was writing to make it appear as if he did but was actually reporting the experience of others who had tried to reach out.
Joe Williams
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Ace said:
I saw that "...middle of 2008..." and thought, this must be a typo, Reilly must mean the "middle of 2009," right? Otherwise, that's a long time for someone to go off the grid w/o friends flushing him out to see what's wrong.
Guess I'm thinking that Reilly, like a lot of us, gets mixed up on years in January and, still stuck in 2009, figured last summer was 2008. But if not -- if Penner/Daniels became unresponsive so long ago -- then some friend needed to press matters harder. Don't you think?
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oscaroscaroscar said:
This is the problem, though, the issue with the whole situation, at least as we (don't) know it. If it helped so much for Mike to become Christine, well, then, what happened?
This is the question that must, and has not been, answered or attempted to be resolved or explained in any way, by anyone.
And Reilly didn't do his real due diligence, either. He doesn't appear to have called Penner's family, or anyone else who might have been in the know, and asked that very question, and it has left a crucial gap in everyone's knowledge or understanding.
The stuff about his possible issues with his gender transition(s) is, at this point, mere speculation. Sure, it probably had to have been part of the problem, but we don't actually know that.
I'm sure Reilly meant exactly what he wrote. We did start hearing less from Christine in mid-2008, because that's when her Woman In Progress blog was stopped (and pulled), apparently at her/Mike's request.
That's how Reilly knew that. Everyone knew that.
And, here's what I'm guessing happened since then: Reilly, unfortunately, and like many of us now regretting this fact, probably made no recent attempts to contact Penner.
He simply knows that Penner wasn't returning emails/texts on the basis of what else was written in the days after Mike's death. If you'll recall, Scott French wrote that he had made an attempt to contact Mike, and that Mike hadn't gotten back to him, and that Scott had then just let it go, thinking that Penner would get in touch when he could and/or when he was ready to do so.
My guess is that Reilly read that column, and, as columnists often do, applied/attached the facts of the situation to their own offerings, without making his own efforts to report or find things out for himself.
That's it. Nothing new, no real effort to further the story, and no real reason to write it, other than to write something, long after the fact.
BYH
Active Member
That was a good column. Might have been great if he didn't have to cram it in the short attention span newshole.
oscaroscaroscar
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I don't think it's fair to say Reilly phoned it in. It was a powerful column that gave as much of a glimpse of Mike/Christine's mindset as Reilly appeared to be able to get.
I suppose he could have asked the family for more details but, for one thing that could have been a little too delicate a situation to push, and for another, for all we know he did that, but didn't get much information other than Mike became tuned everyone out for a while.
The point of a column isn't always to break new ground. It's to provide your perspective on a topic that means something to you. No one else can offer that. I think he did that extremely well.
I suppose he could have asked the family for more details but, for one thing that could have been a little too delicate a situation to push, and for another, for all we know he did that, but didn't get much information other than Mike became tuned everyone out for a while.
The point of a column isn't always to break new ground. It's to provide your perspective on a topic that means something to you. No one else can offer that. I think he did that extremely well.
Harry Doyle
Member
oscaroscaroscar said:
Agreed. This one was personal for Reilly, and I think he handled it with great touch. I wish I could criticize him for it, because it's a gas of a sport. But this time Rick came through.
BYH
Active Member
oscaroscaroscar said:
Stitch used blue font, so I think he was speaking well of Rick and the article.
imjustagirl
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BYH said:
Conversely, the blue font means he WASN'T surprised Reilly phoned it in.
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I guess part of my problem with it, besides the issues stated earlier, can be traced to a paragraph that Reilly, himself, wrote: about how Mike/Christine instantly became the most famous transgender person in the world.
Based on what happened after that, especially the end result, it seems obvious that Mike did not want to be that, and had some serious problems with it.
By writing/publishing something about it so widely, especially so long after his death (which I know probably couldn't be helped, thanks to the print cycle of a magazine), Reilly -- how ever unintentionally -- feels to me as if he's being a little exploitive of what, for most people is a curiosity, an unknowable situation.
In doing so, he has violated an obviously demonstrated, and desperate, need/desire for privacy on the part of Mike, and now, his family, about something that's intensely sensitive and, almost by definition, not widely known or understood.
The problem is not with the quality or what I'm sure is the intended spirit of the column. It is with the more basic fact that it was done at all in this particular case.
Based on what happened after that, especially the end result, it seems obvious that Mike did not want to be that, and had some serious problems with it.
By writing/publishing something about it so widely, especially so long after his death (which I know probably couldn't be helped, thanks to the print cycle of a magazine), Reilly -- how ever unintentionally -- feels to me as if he's being a little exploitive of what, for most people is a curiosity, an unknowable situation.
In doing so, he has violated an obviously demonstrated, and desperate, need/desire for privacy on the part of Mike, and now, his family, about something that's intensely sensitive and, almost by definition, not widely known or understood.
The problem is not with the quality or what I'm sure is the intended spirit of the column. It is with the more basic fact that it was done at all in this particular case.
Fredrick said:
I have kind of had the feeling that we'll one day see a long-form magazine piece on Mike end up in a "Best American Sportswriting." Not sure if any magazine writer will get the info or access they need if Reilly didn't get it himself, but it's otherwise there for the taking.
