RIP Jim Otto

[HanSenSE]

210 straight starts in the AFL and NFL says plenty. HOF. And, of course, the number. Damn right he deserves his own thread.

 

[Slacker]

Damn good making it to 86 after all those years at center, too.

 

[HanSenSE]

Damn good making it to 86 after all those years at center, too.

Just skimming this obit (hoping it's not paywalled), this struck me: 20 concussions, 74 surgeries total, 28 knee surgeries, right leg amputated at the knee in 2007, six knee replacements and two shoulder replacements.

In addition to working for the Raiders, for a while he owned a Burger King in Auburn, Calif., with a lot of memorabilia displayed. A nice pit stop when making that 15-minute trip to Tahoe.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/05/19/original-oakland-raider-hall-of-famer-jim-otto-dies-at-86/

 

[Slacker]

In 14 seasons of play for the Oakland Raiders, Jim Otto played had a punishing history of injuries. He needed 74 surgeries for his football injuries, including the amputation of one of his legs. This interview was conducted by FRONTLINE’s Tom Jennings on Dec. 22, 2012.

The FRONTLINE Interview: Jim Otto | League of Denial:
The NFL's Concussion Crisis | FRONTLINE | PBS

"We went to Green Bay to play the Packers, and in the book I wrote that I had a big fan base from my hometown in [Wausau, Wis]. There was about 150 people come, and naturally I wanted to play well and everything. I wanted to play well every week, no matter what, but in this game, we started out with Jim Carter in the middle. He was middle linebacker for the Packers. And Nitschke, it was right toward the end of his career, and he was I guess letting Carter get some time in there. Well, I was having a pretty good game against Carter, and Nitschke was on the sideline -- you could see that -- and he was all upset. So all of a sudden here comes Raymond into the game. He's going to make some trash out of me. And so yes, he broke my helmet; he broke my face mask in here, which broke my nose and set it over here. Broke my cheekbone, and my zygomatic arch bone here, and detached the retina in my left eye, which I was blind for six months in my left eye. It was really bad. It all swelled up, and I couldn't see, but I kept playing. I never went out of the game."

 

[Neutral Corner]

Holy ****.

Well earned rest.

 

[DanOregon]

He had it all, the number, the neck roll, the two bar AND the nose "ring" - that guy could have played in the leather helmet days. Total stud.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

I remember reading something about him that it took 2 hours to get out of bed in the morning. Between him, and Mike Webster and how many other unknown players from the 70s and 80s were destroyed physically.
RIP

 

[DanOregon]

It should also be noted that back then, team doctors were pretty terrible and players had to rely on the team to put their bodies back together.

 

[outofplace]

I remember reading something about him that it took 2 hours to get out of bed in the morning. Between him, and Mike Webster and how many other unknown players from the 70s and 80s were destroyed physically.
RIP

I have tremendous respect for Otto, but I can't help thinking CTE or some other form of brain damage contributed to his decisions to keep playing after each injury. I read somewhere that he suffered at least 20 concussions. What he did to his body was just brutal.

Below are some quotes from an interview he did with PBS.

"I don't like concussions. I've had over 20 concussions myself, and I don't like them. I don't like to think about what these guys are talking about with regards to concussions and how it could affect our lives. I mean, it's affected my life; it surely has. But I'm not out there crying about it. I know that I went to war, and I came out of the battle with what I got, and that's the way it is. That's the way Mike Webster would say it, too. I'm sure he would. I mean, we battled in there, and this is the result of it right here, sitting here, looking at you."


"I have issues, yes, I have issues. I don't know if it is directly connected to my brain, my issues, but I have problems with dizziness. I forget words. You say that I come up with words. Well, I'm very fortunate that I can do that, because there are times that I can't remember people's names. But I don't think it's that important, you know, to remember someone's name. I love everybody, and I love to know them; I love to remember their names, but sometimes if I can't remember a name, I'm not going to fret over it and get upset.

"I can't perform like I used to for a lot of different things physically, but I don't think it's directly connected to the brain. The doctors have led me to believe that yes indeed, due to using my head and the number of concussions I have had, taken me down this road to where I do have some problems with memory [and] that I will have more, but I'm not worried about it."

 

[Neutral Corner]

I remember reading something about him that it took 2 hours to get out of bed in the morning. Between him, and Mike Webster and how many other unknown players from the 70s and 80s were destroyed physically.
RIP

Earl Campbell comes to mind. The man can barely make it from his truck to his front door. Bum Phillips used him up, with Earl's enthusiastic agreement, running him out of the I formation thirty plus time a game in the NFL. Earl wasn't going to slip a tackle or go out of bounds, he'd lower his shoulder (or his head) and run tacklers over instead.

 

[Liut]

I'll throw the late Conrad Dobler's name out here.
The Cardinals practiced on Busch Stadium II's turf-covered concrete. Might as well have been working out in a parking lot.
Thanks, Bill.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Andre Waters. Played on the parking lot at the old Vet and hit like a dump truck.

 

[mateen]

Otto was featured in a 1985 HBO special about the costs of football, the same one that displayed Marv Marinovich's full-blown insanity in how he was raising a then-teenaged Todd. To show how the teenaged mind works, I was just appalled by the shape Otto was in - they showed him barely able to get out of bed in the morning - but it certainly didn't stop me from playing football that fall in my senior year of high school.

From what I remember, both in that HBO special and long after Otto always said he didn't regret playing and would do it all again.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

It should also be noted that back then, team doctors were pretty terrible and players had to rely on the team to put their bodies back together.

Are we sure they're much better today?

 

[DanOregon]

The Players Association is stronger and players make enough where they can use their own doctors.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

The Players Association is stronger and players make enough where they can use their own doctors.

Agree on the latter. Ehhhhh on the former. They're all a bunch of well-paid Dr. Nicks. Get those guys back on the field at any cost.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Are we sure they're much better today?

I want to say there are at least a few instances where a QB was concussed and went back in a few minutes later.

 

[outofplace]

I want to say there are at least a few instances where a QB was concussed and went back in a few minutes later.

There are. Things are better, but not as good as they should be.

 

[outofplace]

Otto was featured in a 1985 HBO special about the costs of football, the same one that displayed Marv Marinovich's full-blown insanity in how he was raising a then-teenaged Todd. To show how the teenaged mind works, I was just appalled by the shape Otto was in - they showed him barely able to get out of bed in the morning - but it certainly didn't stop me from playing football that fall in my senior year of high school.

From what I remember, both in that HBO special and long after Otto always said he didn't regret playing and would do it all again.

Of course, that statement is coming from a brain that suffered over 20 concussions. He admitted to some level of brain damage, though he didn't use that term.

I remember seeing that special in 1985. His ability to move and function would have only gotten worse. Imagine living like that for over 40 years.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Of course, that statement is coming from a brain that suffered over 20 concussions. He admitted to some level of brain damage, though he didn't use that term.

I remember seeing that special in 1985. His ability to move and function would have only gotten worse. Imagine living like that for over 40 years.

I was thinking that too. Lived a good two-thirds of his life in agonizing pain. That's a damn near superhuman level of toughness.