RIP Jim Brown

[Michael_ Gee]

The sweep is not extinct, but its current most used version, the jet sweep, is very different from what Brown and Lombardi's teams ran. Note however that the basic idea is the same, get our most dangerous offensive player out in space. It's just that now the most dangerous player is a Tyreek Hill type, not a bruiser.

 

[User 149557]

Hasn’t the backside speed of edge guys pretty much killed the running back sweep more than the size of linemen?

TJ Watt or Myles Garrett will just chase you down.

 

[Azrael]

The sweep is not extinct, but its current most used version, the jet sweep, is very different from what Brown and Lombardi's teams ran. Note however that the basic idea is the same, get our most dangerous offensive player out in space. It's just that now the most dangerous player is a Tyreek Hill type, not a bruiser.

Hasn’t the backside speed of edge guys pretty much killed the running back sweep more than the size of linemen?

TJ Watt or Myles Garrett will just chase you down.

True as that is, you could simply start plugging those same big, fast guys into the O-line rather than simply defaulting them to defensive end.

But passing has so long outstripped and exceeded the ground game in football, no one bothers.

To get a sense of Jim Brown running a power sweep today you'd need to picture a runner 8 feet tall, 400 lbs with 4-flat 40 speed turning upfield with 3 Bednariks clinging to him.

 

[LanceyHoward]

Hasn’t the backside speed of edge guys pretty much killed the running back sweep more than the size of linemen?

TJ Watt or Myles Garrett will just chase you down.

When Green Bay ran the power sweep to the strong side they pulled both guards. The weak side tackle would try to cut the weak side defensive tackle who is a couple feet closer to the direction of the play. The weak side defensive end is unblocked. Today the weak side tackle and end crash down and stop the play for a loss.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

So I looked it up. Of the five Brown-Eagles games I saw when Brown played, Philly held him under 100 yards once. He got 99. He had over 150 three times, and once went for 233 in 28 carries. So age has not distorted the memories of my youth. When I saw him, he played like the best ever.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

The sweep is not extinct, but its current most used version, the jet sweep, is very different from what Brown and Lombardi's teams ran. Note however that the basic idea is the same, get our most dangerous offensive player out in space. It's just that now the most dangerous player is a Tyreek Hill type, not a bruiser.

Yeah. Covered a high school game, not too many years ago, in which an undersized player with good speed, playing with undersized linemen, was best utilized with the jet sweep.

After the coach had the bigger team gasping and guessing – and the box wasn't as packed – then he hit them up the middle on occasion. Made the team with much bigger players look silly.

Jim Taylor and Jim Brown were effective on the sweep not only because they had multiple linemen pulling, but also because those backs were almost as large as the linemen themselves. Today's backs – save maybe Derrick Henry – aren't fractionally as large as the guys blocking for those backs ... and today's linemen are not as mobile as the linemen of yesteryear.

The problem with Brown was he was almost as large as the linemen on both sides of the ball, stronger in some cases and much faster. That was a problem.

 

[wicked]

Didn’t Brown retire after he got in some sort of spat with Art Modell? It might have been a contract negotiation. Another ****up by Art Modell.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Didn’t Brown retire after he got in some sort of spat with Art Modell? It might have been a contract negotiation. Another ****up by Art Modell.

Yup. Filming for "The Dirty Dozen" spilled into training camp time for the Browns. Modell issued an ultimatum. Jim Brown responded by retiring.

So yeah ... Modell fired Paul Brown, then upset Jim Brown enough to retire early. City curse, my butt. Modell singlehandedly screwed up this franchise, then convinced Baltimore to hand him their keys to pull up stakes and leave 30 years later. Small wonder longtime Browns fans don't exactly revere Modell.

 

[ChrisLong]

I've learned something I didn't know. A bunch of my classmates from high school in the West L.A. area (I graduated in 1970) are posting condolences about Jim Brown on Facebook because they knew him. A lot of them are saying they went to parties at his house. They say he was always very nice, treated them very well. Both men and women.
Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem are mentioned, too. One classmate was exclusive to Kareem for a while. Her older sister was a Playmate who worked at the Bunny Club and has posted on FB details about Wilt's house.
I knew the connections to Wilt and Kareem. I did not know about Brown.

 

[JC]

What’s funny or perhaps not is that when OJ was charged with murder Brown said something to the effect that he always knew there was something off and disingenuous about OJ. In hindsight, Brown more accurately exhibited the behavior of a violent killer than OJ ever did. I dont know why he got a pass in regards to public opinion; maybe because he spent decades no longer trying to carve out a niche in the entertainment world, wasnt banging a buck that ran counter to anyone, and did genuinely lend valuable guidance and advice to wayward athletes. He was a son of a ***** for sure, but he seemed to know it and try in his own way to make up for it or to at least make a positive contribution. Alwaya fascinating when some people contribute their talents most effectively to people somewhat removed from them. And maybe because they don’t need or expect anything in return, as opposed to a wife or girlfriend.

btw, OJ didn’t kill Nicole and Ron; it was his son, Jason. He called OJ after and that’s why his footprints were at the scene. And the Bronco chase? It was because OJ was grappling with the fact he was gonna be charged and the only way out of it was to dime his son. Not joking. Google Jason Simpson.

The OJ Simpson Saga Began 20 Years Age Today - Here's Why His Son Should Be A Suspect

Nordberg was framed.

Do you think the NHL draft lottery was rigged as well? @ChrisLong

 

[Starman]

When Green Bay ran the power sweep to the strong side they pulled both guards. The weak side tackle would try to cut the weak side defensive tackle who is a couple feet closer to the direction of the play. The weak side defensive end is unblocked. Today the weak side tackle and end crash down and stop the play for a loss.

Yeah, in addition to edge rushers being lightning fast now, so are defensive tackles and inside linebackers. You try the classic Packers/Browns/USC Student Body style sweep with both guards pulling, a DT comes firing through that gap and demolishes the QB before he even hands the ball off.

In the 50s-70s heyday of the classic sweeps, very few interior defensive linemen had much speed at all. Most were huge guys plugging the middle. Alex Karras, who played at 240-250, was a glaring exception. Probably not entirely coincidentally some of Karras' legendary games were against the Packers running down guys like Taylor and Hornung.

 

[Deskgrunt50]

As a pure runner, for my money the GOATs are Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, with very different styles.

As for a total offense football player, running, receiving, blocking, throwing: I'll take Walter Payton as my GOAT. The man could do it all. And he did it on ****ty teams for much of his career.

Still sucks Ditka didn't get him a TD in the Super Bowl blowout. Nobody deserved it more.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

One interesting thing I found going back through those old Eagles-Browns boxscores was that Brown did serve as a receiver. Not often, but he'd catch one or two a game, most of them for 10-plus yards. Were they screens? Swing passes? Box scores don't say that. And while even at the time Brown was not thought of as any kind of a blocker, in two of the games the other running back (Bobby Mitchell, Les Carpenter) had over 100 yards, so Brown must have gotten in somebody's way. That or the Eagles' run defense was hapless, which tracks with the memories of my youth as well.

 

[Bubbler]

They don’t make trailers like this anymore. Both “Slaughter” movies are pretty entertaining.

 

[outofplace]

As a pure runner, for my money the GOATs are Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, with very different styles.

As for a total offense football player, running, receiving, blocking, throwing: I'll take Walter Payton as my GOAT. The man could do it all. And he did it on ****ty teams for much of his career.

Still sucks Ditka didn't get him a TD in the Super Bowl blowout. Nobody deserved it more.

That was truly a mistifying and awful decision by Ditka. If I remember, his excuse was that he didn't even think about it. What a load of crap.

 

[Scout]

As a pure runner, for my money the GOATs are Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, with very different styles.

As for a total offense football player, running, receiving, blocking, throwing: I'll take Walter Payton as my GOAT. The man could do it all. And he did it on ****ty teams for much of his career.

Still sucks Ditka didn't get him a TD in the Super Bowl blowout. Nobody deserved it more.

Marcus Allen could also do everything, but he was not the runner Walter was, but who was?

Allen spent one season as a true feature back and won the MVP, then it never happened again.

Strange career, but a great career.

His 191 would still be on the SB record books if Denver’s coaches would have told their linebackers how to defend a counter.