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YankeeFan

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Joined
Nov 19, 2004
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Looks like voting for gay marriage isn't the political death penalty many thought -- even for Republicans.

Maybe our President and other politicians of both parties will have the same courage as these four New York State Republicans, and come out strongly for gay marriage.

Bill Keller in the New York Times Magazine:

At the end of January, New York’s Conservative Party, the most influential of the minor parties that complicate the state’s politics, celebrated its 50th anniversary at a Holiday Inn near the Albany airport, a vast and dingy venue that reminded me of athlete housing left over from the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Politicians like former Gov. George Pataki, who owed his election to the Conservatives, came to pay homage to the party for its record of steering the state’s politics to the right.

But one calamity darkened the mood of nostalgia and self-congratulation: the passage last summer of a law legalizing same-sex marriage. For many New Yorkers, the June 24 marriage vote was a rare moment of goosebump drama from a capital better known for tedious dysfunction. For the Conservatives, and in particular for Mike Long, the ex-marine who has been the party’s chairman for nearly half of its history, the vote was a triple humiliation.

It was, first, a defining triumph for the state’s ambitious new Democratic governor, Andrew Cuomo. Second, it was an abandonment by Republican leaders, who had invoked party discipline to kill similar legislation in 2009. This time the Republican leaders publicly opposed gay marriage, but knowing that both public opinion and lobbying muscle were coalescing on the other side, they freed their members to vote as they wished. And that led to what was, for Mike Long, an unforgivable betrayal. All four of the Republican senators who voted for the bill and provided the necessary margin for it to pass had been elected with the Conservative endorsement, a prize for which opposition to gay marriage was an essential litmus test. Two of those wayward senators would not have won their seats without the Conservative boost.

Try as they might to explain away the defections — perhaps it was the lure of money from gay hedge-fund billionaires, or some devilish deal with Cuomo — the Conservatives feared that this defeat, if not punished, could mean an ominous loss of influence.

The four Republican apostates now had targets on their backs.

...

Roy J. McDonald, who represents former mill towns like Troy and Mechanicville, didn’t see much percentage in reminiscing about his vote, either. He literally backpedaled as I interviewed him in the Senate lobby. “I did what I thought was right,” he told me. The voters “understand that,” but now they want to talk about jobs and foreclosures, not marriage. “I can’t dwell on this stuff.” McDonald is a Vietnam veteran and former steelworker. Though he is now a banker, he retains a bluff manner, but with a compassionate streak when it comes to those born different. Friends say he has two autistic grandsons, and watching the insensitivity the boys endured gave him a kind of collateral distaste for those who would marginalize gays. McDonald, entirely in character, responded to criticism by announcing that if doing the right thing costs him his seat, “They can take the job and shove it.” That did not sit well with some local Republican leaders, but it’s the kind of directness his constituents seem to like.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/magazine/republicans-who-supported-gay-marriage.html?hp=&pagewanted=all
 
The right wing shriek machine is going berserk over Obama's failure to support their good friends in the LGBT community.


I am concerned.
 
Starman said:
The right wing shriek machine is going berserk over Obama's failure to support their good friends in the LGBT community.


I am concerned.

It's a civil rights issue.

It's not a right or left issue.
 
Starman said:

**** Cheney, Ken Mehlman, Laura Bush and many more are on one side of the issue.

Barack Obama, Bill & Hillary Clinton, and many more are on the other side.

So, tell me, how is this a Republican vs. Democrat issue?

The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me.
 
YankeeFan said:
Starman said:

**** Cheney, Ken Mehlman, Laura Bush and many more are on one side of the issue.

Barack Obama, Bill & Hillary Clinton, and many more are on the other side.

So, tell me, how is this a Republican vs. Democrat issue?

The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me.

Sorry, but this is one of the all-time disingenuous arguments.

Yes, for (I believe misguided) political reasons, Obama and the Clintons have been opposed.

A former Republican VP with a gay daughter and a former Republican First Lady feel differently. Yippee.

Meanwhile, the guy who won states as the "true conservative" in the GOP race believes gay sex should be outlawed, and gay marriage has been a big get-out-the-vote downticket issue for Republicans.

Feel free to criticize Obama's stance, because he deserves it, but let's not pretend it's not a right or left issue.
 
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PCLoadLetter said:
Sorry, but this is one of the all-time disingenuous arguments.

Yes, for (I believe misguided) political reasons, Obama and the Clintons have been opposed.

A former Republican VP with a gay daughter and a former Republican First Lady feel differently. Yippee.

Meanwhile, the guy who won states as the "true conservative" in the GOP race believes gay sex should be outlawed, and gay marriage has been a big get-out-the-vote downticket issue for Republicans.

Feel free to criticize Obama's stance, because he deserves it, but let's not pretend it's not a right or left issue.

Dispute this then:

"The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me. "

Or, tell me why these four Republicans featured in Keller's article do not appear to paying a political price?
 
I dunno, if gay marriage is such an awesome groovy thing everybody should support, how come the 90% of all the other Republicans, who vehemently oppose it, aren't paying a political price?

I was concerned before, and even more concerned now. ::) ::)
 
YankeeFan said:
PCLoadLetter said:
Sorry, but this is one of the all-time disingenuous arguments.

Yes, for (I believe misguided) political reasons, Obama and the Clintons have been opposed.

A former Republican VP with a gay daughter and a former Republican First Lady feel differently. Yippee.

Meanwhile, the guy who won states as the "true conservative" in the GOP race believes gay sex should be outlawed, and gay marriage has been a big get-out-the-vote downticket issue for Republicans.

Feel free to criticize Obama's stance, because he deserves it, but let's not pretend it's not a right or left issue.

Dispute this then:

"The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me. "

Or, tell me why these four Republicans featured in Keller's article do not appear to paying a political price?
Catholics don't skew Democrat. Look at the last 4 presidential elections. Then look at the Catholic vote. No statistical difference between the overall vote and the Catholic vote will be found.
 
franklin lincoln said:
Catholics don't skew Democrat. Look at the last 4 presidential elections. Then look at the Catholic vote. No statistical difference between the overall vote and the Catholic vote will be found.

Traditionally Democrat. Now, more of a swing vote.

Either way, it still proves my point. Catholics are more likely to be against gay marriage. They are not any more likely to be Republican. They're divided.
 
YankeeFan said:
PCLoadLetter said:
Sorry, but this is one of the all-time disingenuous arguments.

Yes, for (I believe misguided) political reasons, Obama and the Clintons have been opposed.

A former Republican VP with a gay daughter and a former Republican First Lady feel differently. Yippee.

Meanwhile, the guy who won states as the "true conservative" in the GOP race believes gay sex should be outlawed, and gay marriage has been a big get-out-the-vote downticket issue for Republicans.

Feel free to criticize Obama's stance, because he deserves it, but let's not pretend it's not a right or left issue.

Dispute this then:

"The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me. "

Or, tell me why these four Republicans featured in Keller's article do not appear to paying a political price?

Seriously?

The fact that you can name groups that may vote Democratic but oppose gay marriage is evidence of something?

How about we check with Gallup:

gjuyiibfpuo7c09cfwsb_w.gif


69% of Democrats support gay marriage. 28% of Republicans support it.

And four lawmakers in a liberal state are not suffering for supporting gay marriage? Knock me over with a feather.
 
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Obama breathes; the shriek machine is outraged.

I am concerned.
 
PCLoadLetter said:
YankeeFan said:
PCLoadLetter said:
Sorry, but this is one of the all-time disingenuous arguments.

Yes, for (I believe misguided) political reasons, Obama and the Clintons have been opposed.

A former Republican VP with a gay daughter and a former Republican First Lady feel differently. Yippee.

Meanwhile, the guy who won states as the "true conservative" in the GOP race believes gay sex should be outlawed, and gay marriage has been a big get-out-the-vote downticket issue for Republicans.

Feel free to criticize Obama's stance, because he deserves it, but let's not pretend it's not a right or left issue.

Dispute this then:

"The elderly, Catholics (who skew Democrat), African-Americans, and Hispanics are all against gay marriage. That does not sound like the Republican base to me. "

Or, tell me why these four Republicans featured in Keller's article do not appear to paying a political price?

Seriously?

The fact that you can name groups that may vote Democratic but oppose gay marriage is evidence of something?

How about we check with Gallup:

gjuyiibfpuo7c09cfwsb_w.gif


69% of Democrats support gay marriage. 28% of Republicans support it.

And four lawmakers in a liberal state are not suffering for supporting gay marriage? Knock me over with a feather.


i blame the clintons.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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