People not motivated by religion shouted "Allahu Akbar" during a moment of silence for Paris

[Dick Whitman]

There may be an alternate interpretation, but I haven't read more widely and deeply than most, as others here have.

VIDEO: Soccer fans chant 'Allahu Akbar' during Paris tribute

 

[YankeeFan]

Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO.

 

[Stoney]

Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO.

And how would that make things better?

 

[YankeeFan]

And how would that make things better?

They work against us.

They refused to let us invade Iraq through their territory.

They'd rather fight the Kurds than ISIS.

They allow Jihadists to cross their border in and out of Syria.

They're becoming more Islamist every day.

They've never owned up to their own genocide.

And, France can't invoke Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, because Turkey would balk at it.

Conceivably, invoking Article 5 would show that “going after and defeating ISIS then becomes the primary objective in the region.” And 27 NATO countries, from the United States to Estonia, might back that.

But NATO member Turkey? After a horrendous ISIS-linked terrorist attack in Ankara in October, the government there began to strengthen its stand against the so-called Islamic State. But for years it tacitly accepted the terrorists’ use of Turkish territory for everything from oil sales to arms to hospitalization of wounded fighters. With millions of Syrian refugees inside its borders, and sleeper cells developed during the period of tolerance for ISIS activities, it's in a much more vulnerable position than France.

Is Ankara ready to commit itself to mutual defense of Paris cafés and sports stadiums? Given the Turkish govenment’s record, that would seem unlikely.

The bottom line, if Article 5 is invoked in any meaningful way, most likely it won’t be soon.

Why Is NATO a No-Go in ISIS War?

**** them. They're not on our side.

 

[Stoney]

Well, they are certainly closer to our side than nearly any other mideast muslim nation.

And you didn't answer my question. Again, how would kicking them out NATO make things better? Seems to me it would only make the whole situation even hairier, perhaps even potentially disastrously so. The last thing we need are more overt enemies over there--particularly one with a population of 75 million, one of the world's largest militaries, and which geographically serves as the bridge between Europe and the Mideast.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Is it possible those fans were just making an ironic commentary on the link between religion and violence?

 

[User 11148]

There were several Turks in my PhD program who were there on their government's dime (there was some sort of exchange program in place). They'd take their doctorate, then they had to either: 1) go back to Turkey and teach for something like five or seven years; or 2) find a gig in the U.S. and then pay back the Turkish government some outlandish sum (like $50K or $75) in a very short timeframe (like three or four years). The strong students among them took the latter option, because the pay differential between U.S. business schools and those in Turkey made that option worthwhile.

I got to be good friends with a couple of them and we'd kid around a good bit about our different backgrounds. For example, they'd give me **** about Halloween or Christmas, and I might, in passing, refer to Constantinople. We never got near anything really sensitive, though. It was all lighthearted but respectful.

A few years ago at a conference I wound up sitting with several of them at the main luncheon, and they had some of their Turkish friends with them. I and my friends were talking in our usual way, when one of them mentioned he'd gone home. "Yeah, back to Constantinople?" I asked innocently. My friends laughed, but their friends were none too amused. They quickly explained, but I resolved to not do any of that sort of kidding around them again.

 

[swingline]

You know, it's nobody's business but the Turks.

 

[YankeeFan]

Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO.

And how would that make things better?

 

[Earthman]

It seems like Kerry has a handle on things.

 

[YankeeFan]

It seems like Kerry has a handle on things.

Here's the good news that's been lost in all of this:

 

[Earthman]

Here's the good news that's been lost in all of this:

"The J.V."

 

[Football_Bat]

France wouldn't let us overfly their country when Reagan bombed Gadhafi in 1986. Should we kick France out of NATO too?

 

[Alma]

Here's the good news that's been lost in all of this:

So ISIS is stronger than it was 18 months ago?

 

[YankeeFan]

So ISIS is stronger than it was 18 months ago?

Is it weaker? By what metric?

 

[cjericho]

France wouldn't let us overfly their country when Reagan bombed Gadhafi in 1986. Should we kick France out of NATO too?

Would they be missed?

 

[Alma]

Is it weaker? By what metric?

You tell me. You're the one mocking Kerry.

 

[YankeeFan]

You tell me. You're the one mocking Kerry.

Their ability to inspire attacks globally only seems to be growing.

They still hold significant land in Syria and Iraq.

They're still attracting fighters to come and join them.

They still hold Yazidi women as sex slaves.

They've lost some land, and some fighters. I'm not sure that's a big setback.

As long as the Caliphate exists in some form, they are winning in the eyes of their followers, which allows them to continue to inspire further terror attacks.

 

[cjericho]

You tell me. You're the one mocking Kerry.

Kerry is the one who said ISIS is on the run. So he should tell us how ISIS is weaker.

 

[amraeder]

Number of those joining down:
Flow of foreign ISIS recruits much slower now, U.S. says

And losing territory and money:
Islamic State has lost grip on 12% of territory in six months – study

A map of 2015 territory losses that have only continued in 2016:
This map shows how much territory ISIS has lost this year

And again, loss of territory means loss of financing:
Islamic State’s moneymaking streams take a hit as it loses territory

It's forcing them to cut salaries:
End of jihadis' 5-star lifestyle as austerity sends Daesh into MELTDOWN

And again, that's costing recruitment and leading to desertions:
ISIS Foreign Fighters In Syria And Iraq Drop As Islamic State Group Loses Revenue, Ground

The problem is, when they become too weak to take ground in traditional military campaigns, they turn to other tactics like many before them:
What Should We Make Of The Islamic State’s Ramadan Wave Of Violence? - Foreign Policy Research Institute

Weaker doesn't = defeated. It doesn't = unable to do harm abroad. It doesn't = going to be finished off any time soon. It just = weaker. Fewer men. Less money. Declining territory.