Page proofs

[HejiraHenry]

Question for you sports editors: Am I alone in getting page proof PDFs sent to me on the nights when I'm not at work? I started doing that a couple of years ago and I find that it's helpful for me to take a look at the work before it goes out the door. The desk guys don't seem to mind, as we do make some improvements from time to time on the basis of checking those out.

The downside, I guess, is that I'm tethered to looking at them, but it beats the hell out of getting some unpleasant surprise when I pick up the paper off the stoop the next morning.

 

[Mark2010]

When I was working news at one place, we were required to send PDFs of pages via an instant messenger service to either the editor or assistant editor (depending on the night) of A1, A2 and A3 (local) pages before sending them off to be printed. I didn't like it because (1) it really slowed things down, meaning I had to be finished at least 30 minutes earlier than otherwise in order for them to check them and sign off. Not a HUGE issue most nights on newsside, but in sports it would have been a disaster.

(2) One editor tended to nit-pick about stuff and I ended up having to do extra stuff on almost every page after I felt it was ready to go. Again, not a huge matter on newsside because I had the time, but in sports --- where I normally was pushing deadline anyway --- it would have been a disaster.

(3) If you are going to hire someone to be a slot editor, have enough confidence in them to get the thing out on time and relatively error-free. Sure, stuff comes up from time to time, but have some confidence in your people. Or, if you really feel that only you and one other person are qualified to sign off on a page, then arrange your schedule to stay in the office to do so. Otherwise, delegate.

In short, I didn't like the arrangement much.

 

[JamesCimburek]

I have typically trusted my ASE — or my copy desk person on the rare weeks I'm wearing my AME hat — to do the job that he or she has been trained to do. If I am breaking in someone new, I would stay close enough to the office to take a look at things.

In order to "enjoy" an evening off, you have to be able to trust your copy desk person — and your writers — to do their jobs.

 

[Football_Bat]

On nights I'm off (like tonight), I can go online and look at pages as they're being paginated. If I had to, I can pull the page up and make fixes.

 

[Versatile]

I think there's a big difference between trusting whoever's on but still wanting to see what's going on and using this sort of practice as an excuse for nitpicking.

 

[Mark2010]

As James said, if you can't trust your people, you're going to be working 365 nights a year, whether at home or the office.

My best boss was a guy who trusted me to get the job done that he hired me to do. If there was a major story or issue, I knew I could always pick up the phone and call him and we'd figure out a solution together. But that's the exception rather than the rule. Most days (when I wasn't flying solo), we'd talk about story play and such before he left at 5 or 6 pm and most of the stuff would go pretty smoothly from then. He had enough confidence in me that if news broke late in the shift that justified changing the gameplan, that I could do smoothly and still make deadline.

We'd normally have two staffers in the office, so we'd cross proof pages. On nights I was flying solo, one of our newsside people would proof them for me.

 

[Riptide]

Empowerment builds confidence. Micromanagement shreds it.

 

[HejiraHenry]

All good points. Most nights, I don't say much except "That looks good. Let it roll."

That said, it's my name at the top (or bottom, depending on redesign) of the section. When somebody asks me, as the sports editor, "Did you see that before it went into print?" I want to say "Yes."

 

[BurnsWhenIPee]

All good points. Most nights, I don't say much except "That looks good. Let it roll."

That said, it's my name at the top (or bottom, depending on redesign) of the section. When somebody asks me, as the sports editor, "Did you see that before it went into print?" I want to say "Yes."

Just curious, how long have you been doing it this way, Henry? Even if it's just checking in and signing off on a page/section, I'd think having to be involved every single night would wear on you quickly.

 

[Versatile]

I don't think HejiraHenry is saying he's proofing every page. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but this sort of practice normally is more about headlines and story placement. Many people, myself included, work more than that on supposed days off.

 

[HejiraHenry]

I don't think HejiraHenry is saying he's proofing every page. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but this sort of practice normally is more about headlines and story placement. Many people, myself included, work more than that on supposed days off.

It's the quick once-over on 3 or 4 finished pages, that's all.

Once in a while, I'm going to suggest a headline change or one last check for an AP writethru.

I have a lot of confidence in the people who work with me - that's why I go home in the first place.

 

[Riptide]

You don't have confidence that your desk would make one last check for the AP writethru?

 

[spikechiquet]

We do this and it's not overly time consuming, but it can be annoying.

We get off the floor at 11:30, and we need a dummy proof sent out by 10 at the latest, preferably 9...just to show what is going where, etc. Most of the time nothing is on the page but dummy type and empty holes for pics/infoboxes/score capsules....but at least our SE/ME/EIC can see that we are progressing and if something like a feature that was done early, they can check the hed.

 

[SoCalScribe]

If someone gets upset that their section is reviewed prior to publication, then they don't have much confidence in their own abilities. If you're good at your job, wouldn't you want a "superior" to see the quality of work you're doing when they have a day off?

 

[dirtybird]

If someone gets upset that their section is reviewed prior to publication, then they don't have much confidence in their own abilities. If you're good at your job, wouldn't you want a "superior" to see the quality of work you're doing when they have a day off?

I don't think it's a matter of getting upset about the review, only the time that factors into it when the superior isn't all in.

Like if Henry is on the ball, clears out that time at home, gets his proof when the copy editor/slot editor/reporter on duty gets it and gets back comments in a timely manner, well then game on.

But some of the time, editors don't really want to put forth on their end. So the copy desk has to call and call till the editor look at their phone at a loud bar three beers in. Or the editor freaks out and calls for a redesign of the front with 40 minutes to deadline because they misspoke about how they wanted to budget in the daily meeting (I've seen both scenarios). These are where the system can go awry.

But if Henry's system works and not causing any friction/slowdowns, then it seems OK. I think in different situations it can go down a bad path (excessive micromanagement, having to finish extra early to accommodate an overly doting editor who wants to be in bed by 10:30) or be rigged up to compensate for lackluster supporting people, which adds other stresses to the system.

 

[Versatile]

If someone gets upset that their section is reviewed prior to publication, then they don't have much confidence in their own abilities. If you're good at your job, wouldn't you want a "superior" to see the quality of work you're doing when they have a day off?

Well, to be reasonable, one would assume HejiraHenry and other sports editors would read the entire section every morning.

 

[Captain Obvious]

If someone gets upset that their section is reviewed prior to publication, then they don't have much confidence in their own abilities. If you're good at your job, wouldn't you want a "superior" to see the quality of work you're doing when they have a day off?

Well, to be reasonable, one would assume HejiraHenry and other sports editors would read the entire section every morning.

I'd like to think every employee should not be expected to be tethered to the job and be able to enjoy a day off without checking into work.

 

[Riptide]

The proofing thing sort of kneecaps the slot editor, though. It can lead to this: I worked with one who was afraid to remake the sports front on the fly without running it by the SE at home. So then you kind of lose faith in your slot, and, worse, you lose five or 10 minutes in the process. That's a lot of wasted time if something big breaks 30 minutes before deadline.

That's not directed at Henry or at any specific paper. But if you have a slot editor, and a good one, everyone needs to have confidence in his or her ability to make the calls anyway. And you can't do that comfortably if you're gun-shy.

 

[Versatile]

Is reading the newspaper every morning the same as being tethered to the job and checking in on work?

 

[BurnsWhenIPee]

For the sake of discussion - and this is not an attack, so please don't take it as such - you can say you have a lot of confidence in your people all you want.

But if you're still giving a final once-over on 3 or 4 finished pages and checking for things like AP Writethrus or possible headline changes every single night you're not working, that would be evidence to the contrary.

Do you do this when you're on vacation/out for a date night with the wife/taking the kids to see a movie, etc.?