Orlando

[swenk]

Here's a question for Alan or anyone else to answer: Are there any legal ramifications to this? Could Alan, or someone who has been blatantly plagiarized, sue the plagiarist for lost income? I don't know the answer.

Plagiarism lawsuits are very common, especially when the material is question has been highly commercial and profitable. Case in point, Dan Brown, author of the Da Vinci Code, was sued by a man claiming the bestseller was based on his earlier novel (Brown won).

But authors indemnify their publishers against claims and damages, so it's hard to win big bucks unless the accused has deep pockets. The more common remedies include pulling the book from the shelves, revising the book with appropriate credit, financial compensation based on royalty earnings and/or advances.

And unlike newspapers, book publishers have no obligation to check for originality or accuracy.

Probably all for another thread, but just wanted to answer the question.

 

[jboy]

Thanks for posting that, Jersey. The Sentinel's public response was insufficient, to say the least. Printing that as a "clarification" was arrogant and misleading -- as if identifying the source of the information would make the plagiarism problem go away.

I'm particularly bothered by Ms. Badger's quote. She seems to blame her sports department -- and, even worse, sports departments in general -- for this. She's saying the standards are lower at the Sentinel and everywhere else, so it's no wonder the story got in. What an arrogant little ****; she doesn't know that's true anywhere else. It's clear she thinks she's the victim in this. Christ, she's lucky to even have a job.

As prominently as she used Byrd's material, she should have had that referenced in the body text of what she wrote.

I find her response infuriating.

Is Badger a married name... was she formally xxxx?

Pretty ****ty thing to do to throw someone's name out like that. (I x-ed our her name.) I guess I shouldn't expect tactfulness from Simon, but still.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Thanks for posting that, Jersey. The Sentinel's public response was insufficient, to say the least. Printing that as a "clarification" was arrogant and misleading -- as if identifying the source of the information would make the plagiarism problem go away.

I'm particularly bothered by Ms. Badger's quote. She seems to blame her sports department -- and, even worse, sports departments in general -- for this. She's saying the standards are lower at the Sentinel and everywhere else, so it's no wonder the story got in. What an arrogant little ****; she doesn't know that's true anywhere else. It's clear she thinks she's the victim in this. Christ, she's lucky to even have a job.

As prominently as she used Byrd's material, she should have had that referenced in the body text of what she wrote.

I find her response infuriating.

Is Badger a married name... was she formally xxxx?

Pretty ****ty thing to do to throw someone's name out like that. (I x-ed our her name.) I guess I shouldn't expect tactfulness from Simon, but still.

Huh?

 

[Alma]

So many interesting ethical quandaries here.

I’ll address the plagiarism, since it’s most interesting.

The Orlanda GA reporter is right. And wrong. Wrong because she has her own conscience, should have followed it, and didn’t. And right in suggesting sports departments - and news organizations in general - stink when comes to appropriate sourcing.

Part of it goes back to journalism has become at universities. It’s not about reporting. It’s about column writing, takeout writing, and feature writing. Even good programs never really teach you the grind. They teach you how to write to win awards, how to write 60-inchers with narrative leads and APSE/APNE written all over them. They teach you that because it’s the fun part of the journalism. But, for thousands of journalists, it’s not the real part.

The real part involves doing well just what GA reporter did carelessly. The reporter should not have been fired. And neither should have Hill for a lapse in judgment.

I don’t think I feel so sorry for Steve Elling. He had a very good gig - one of the best in America - and it wasn’t enough. Clearly. Anybody who pads their stories for extra cash isn’t freelancing for the opportunity. He’s freelancing for the dough.

 

[Frank_Ridgeway]

The real part involves doing well just what GA reporter did carelessly.

Uh, no. All the Sentinel had to do was e-mail the guy and ask his permission, and it probably could have used it for free.

You know, we have a sports section acting high and mighty because it won't stoop to using file art like everyone else, yet apparently lacks the resources to put together its own spring training guide, so it has to steal one out of a book?

It was laziness and theft.

The reporter should not have been fired.

I think selective enforcement of the rules contributes to this kind of thing happening again. Go soft on one person's misdeeds and you set a precedent.

 

[Birdscribe]

And while the 33 instances is a number that raises my eyebrows, I have another question.
Aren't others writing for programs? Didn't David Hyde have something in the Super Bowl program? What about the Masters program - doesn't it include contributions from beat folks?
Where is the line?

We can write for preview mags and a couple of Web sites, with prior permission. We can't do programs.
Others? What is the policy, who polices it, how is it enforced?

Correctamundo.

Alma, I enjoy reading your intelligent posts more than just about anything on here, but what's the problem with Steve freelancing for money? He obviously had his backyard/beat work taken care of; this is indisputable.

Let's see, there isn't a week that goes by on this board where the indentured servitude pay issue isn't brought up in some way, shape or form. So why is it an issue if Steve makes a little bit of money on the side?

If it is a problem, then there's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths. We don't beat anyone else up for freelancing (see Whitlock, Jason and a plethora of others), so why should we beat up Steve?

I said it before. I'll say it again. There is no logical or rational way to justify what happened to Steve Elling and those who try to rationalize it are wrong. Period.

 

[swenk]

Part of it goes back to journalism has become at universities. It’s not about reporting. It’s about column writing, takeout writing, and feature writing. Even good programs never really teach you the grind. They teach you how to write to win awards, how to write 60-inchers with narrative leads and APSE/APNE written all over them. They teach you that because it’s the fun part of the journalism. But, for thousands of journalists, it’s not the real part.

Undeniably true--you see it here every time someone makes a backhanded remark about schlepping agate or covering girls high school badminton.

But when my grade school kids come home with their second grade writing homework, the directions clearly state "USE YOUR OWN WORDS!' Basic life lesson. You wash your hands after you go to the bathroom, you don't look at the other kid's paper during the test, you use your own words when you write a paper. You don't need a college education--much less J-school--to understand that.

 

[Alma]

Alma, I enjoy reading your intelligent posts more than just about anything on here, but what's the problem with Steve freelancing for money? He obviously had his backyard/beat work taken care of; this is indisputable.

Let's see, there isn't a week that goes by on this board where the indentured servitude pay issue isn't brought up in some way, shape or form. So why is it an issue if Steve makes a little bit of money on the side?

If it is a problem, then there's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths. We don't beat anyone else up for freelancing (see Whitlock, Jason and a plethora of others), so why should we beat up Steve?

I said it before. I'll say it again. There is no logical or rational way to justify what happened to Steve Elling and those who try to rationalize it are wrong. Period.

I'm saying that I don't <i> personally </i> feel sorry for the guy. I mean, taking your stories and padding them for cash is, to me, disingenuous. Of course other journalists do it. What difference does that make to my own ethical paradigm?

Remember, I'm the guy who says newspapers should prevent their reporters from even appearing on radio and TV shows if they're on there just to say "hey, I work for the paper." I'm all the way over to one side on this.

 

[Editude]

My line starts getting blurred when beat reporters go on TV or radio and give opinions about teams/players/situations they cover, and then go back to the daily grind in the paper. To me, beat columns or whatever you want to call them should make readers question the relative objectivity of anyone who writes them.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Well, at least Alma is consistent... I'll give him that...

I'll never apologize for freelancing for any magazine that will pay me or getting paid to go on the radio. Some of us have kids to raise and I'm a little more concerned about that than being "disingenuous" because we made some extra money...

The more I read this, the more I feel sorry for Elling... He is one of the best golf writers around and they made an example of him... I love the Sentinel, but this really sucks...

 

[write then drink]

* Sports departments often print items -- especially in weekly notebooks -- which the reporter did not gather and are not properly sourced. And this isn't considered a problem at all most places.

it's mind-boggling to me that this is allowed to happen. it's like, as long as you're writing your Sunday national notebook, you can take anything you want out of any paper anywhere without attributing it.

i read this stuff in huge major metros everywhere I travel and it infuriates me. why do all these firm rules suddenly not apply to sunday notebooks? here's a sunday NBA notebook quoting 12 different people in eight different cities and none of the quotes are attributed. did the writer actually call Kobe, Jason Kidd, Mehmet Okur, LeBron, Allen Iverson and Carmelo and everybody else?

the notion that once something is published somewhere automatically makes it fair game for everybody's notes column is preposterous and goes against everything I was taught. yet it happens in just about every Sunday section.

and a tagline that, "This story was compiled using information from various sources," hardly makes it OK

 

[Frank_Ridgeway]

* Sports departments often print items -- especially in weekly notebooks -- which the reporter did not gather and are not properly sourced. And this isn't considered a problem at all most places.

it's mind-boggling to me that this is allowed to happen. it's like, as long as you're writing your Sunday national notebook, you can take anything you want out of any paper anywhere without attributing it.

i read this stuff in huge major metros everywhere I travel and it infuriates me. why do all these firm rules suddenly not apply to sunday notebooks? here's a sunday NBA notebook quoting 12 different people in eight different cities and none of the quotes are attributed. did the writer actually call Kobe, Jason Kidd, Mehmet Okur, LeBron, Allen Iverson and Carmelo and everybody else?

the notion that once something is published somewhere automatically makes it fair game for everybody's notes column is preposterous and goes against everything I was taught. yet it happens in just about every Sunday section.

and a tagline that, "This story was compiled using information from various sources," hardly makes it OK

They're not always lifting. Some beat writers trade items with beat writers in other cities. I think San Jose was the first to acknowledge on the bottom that this was so.

 

[write then drink]

* Sports departments often print items -- especially in weekly notebooks -- which the reporter did not gather and are not properly sourced. And this isn't considered a problem at all most places.

it's mind-boggling to me that this is allowed to happen. it's like, as long as you're writing your Sunday national notebook, you can take anything you want out of any paper anywhere without attributing it.

i read this stuff in huge major metros everywhere I travel and it infuriates me. why do all these firm rules suddenly not apply to sunday notebooks? here's a sunday NBA notebook quoting 12 different people in eight different cities and none of the quotes are attributed. did the writer actually call Kobe, Jason Kidd, Mehmet Okur, LeBron, Allen Iverson and Carmelo and everybody else?

the notion that once something is published somewhere automatically makes it fair game for everybody's notes column is preposterous and goes against everything I was taught. yet it happens in just about every Sunday section.

and a tagline that, "This story was compiled using information from various sources," hardly makes it OK

They're not always lifting. Some beat writers trade items with beat writers in other cities. I think San Jose was the first to acknowledge on the bottom that this was so.

no, they're not always lifting. there are still notes networks among national writers in every major sport. but i still think stuff should be attributed, even when it's being willingly shared

one byproduct of these notes networks is a sameness among many notes columns. if you check out 10 national notes columns on your beat, you're gonna see the same stuff in eight of 'em. big deal? not really. i just don't like it. because it's laziness & a replacement for doing real work.

 

[Alma]

I'll never apologize for freelancing for any magazine that will pay me or getting paid to go on the radio. Some of us have kids to raise and I'm a little more concerned about that than being "disingenuous" because we made some extra money...

You mean this semi-seriously, right?

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

one byproduct of these notes networks is a sameness among many notes columns. if you check out 10 national notes columns on your beat, you're gonna see the same stuff in eight of 'em. big deal? not really. i just don't like it. because it's laziness & a replacement for doing real work.

How is this different from the newspaper groups that some companies have set up, where a half-dozen papers are sharing the same gamers, notebooks, features, et al, every day?

Those papers have a contract with each other. And the byline is the same every time. It's not someone passing off someone's else's work as ther own.

 

[Dan Rydell]

How about when a columnist does his/her radio show and then his/her tv gig, then comes back the next day with the newspaper column, which is nothing but a rehash of what was said the day before on radio and TV.

Newspaper gets it last, and a day later, and the columnist is getting three paychecks from the same material. Those guys on ESPN are cleaning up, maybe writing fewer columns since they're so B.U.S.Y. Did they take a cut in pay from the paper to spread this stuff all around?

Doubt it.

Makes Elling look like small potatos in this mess.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

You know, we have a sports section acting high and mighty because it won't stoop to using file art like everyone else, yet apparently lacks the resources to put together its own spring training guide, so it has to steal one out of a book?

Nobody wanted to say anything about this during the McKenzie dirge, but it's a point that needed to be made.

The journalist in question [NAME REDACTED for the ultrasensitive, Janie Jones] took a short cut and produced stolen rubbish. Call a spade a spade. The writer whose work was carelessly pilfered has spoken.

 

[Montezuma's Revenge]

I'm amazed that with all the people who ***** (rightfully so) about the lousy pay, we have all this harping at people who can parlay their work into extra money.

Sounds like a little -- OK, a lot -- of jealousy at work.

 

[slappy4428]

How about when a columnist does his/her radio show and then his/her tv gig, then comes back the next day with the newspaper column, which is nothing but a rehash of what was said the day before on radio and TV.

Newspaper gets it last, and a day later, and the columnist is getting three paychecks from the same material. Those guys on ESPN are cleaning up, maybe writing fewer columns since they're so B.U.S.Y. Did they take a cut in pay from the paper to spread this stuff all around?

Doubt it.

Sounds like you're in The Zone...

 

[BTExpress]

I'm amazed that with all the people who ***** (rightfully so) about the lousy pay, we have all this harping at people who can parlay their work into extra money.

Look at it this way:

The Hometown Bugle pays $1,000 to send its writer to Hawaii to cover local player in the LPGA opener.

In the course of talking to local player, writer has extra information and extra quotes that he then uses for a magazine piece on local player.

Magazine gets a story without having to foot the travel bill for the writer.

Writer gets two paychecks and frequent-flyer miles for doing barely more work than the initial assignment for Hometown Bugle.

If I'm Hometown Bugle, I tell writer, "If you want to freelance, the magazine must pay half the travel bill, or your frequent-flyer miles go belong to the company."

Without Hometown Bugle paying for the travel in the first place, writer doesn't get the opportunity for second paycheck, and magazine doesn't have a writer to provide a story.

Hometown Bugle deserves a little remuneration from one or both parties.