Not cleaning up quotes: racist?
- Thread starter YankeeFan
- Start date
U
Uncle.Ruckus
Guest
This passage also stood out to me:
A dozen other adjectives would have worked there. Writer was trying to be cute.
A dozen other adjectives would have worked there. Writer was trying to be cute.
Y
YGBFKM
Guest
No way to quote Karen Hunter without making her sound like a complete moron.
imjustagirl
Active Member
I guess I'm racist against white guys then.
U
Uncle.Ruckus
Guest
imjustagirl said:
Rubbing is racing.
![Pampers Sensitive Baby Wipes, Clinically Proven, Fragrance Free, Unscented, Water Based, Hypoallergenic, Multi-Use, Hand Wipes 336 Wipes Total (6X Flip-Top Packs) [Packaging May Vary]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41KLBHu9CAL._SL500_.jpg)
Y
YGBFKM
Guest
YGBFKM said:
I mean makin'
Y
YGBFKM
Guest
TWSS
PCLoadLetter
Well-Known Member
"Racist" certainly seems like an extreme view of that.
I'll say this, though: I can't recall ever seeing any politician's words transcribed like that, much less a president's. And when he's speaking to the Congressional Black Caucus, that's an odd time to go so literal.
I'll say this, though: I can't recall ever seeing any politician's words transcribed like that, much less a president's. And when he's speaking to the Congressional Black Caucus, that's an odd time to go so literal.
Pretty sad to see the standard presidential stress and aging process taking effect.
"I need a drink. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Not in some pie-in-the-sky Neverland bar of the future. But now! Right now!"
"I need a drink. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Not in some pie-in-the-sky Neverland bar of the future. But now! Right now!"
Flying Headbutt
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2002
- Messages
- 18,515
For what it's worth, AP policy, especially when it comes to the president, is that there is NO cleaning up of quotes. There may be some exceptions for less important people, but when it comes to the president, it may as well be carved into rock and carried down by Moses.
Flying Headbutt said:
Bad example. He trashed those as soon as he got down the mountain and had to go up for a writethru.
I do think the President here was going for the dialect. You can't ignore that. It would have been incorrect to ignore that.
And I never, ever would have noticed the "darkened room" adjective.
Point of Order
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2005
- Messages
- 7,067
I've thought about this. A lot. Deciding between complainin' and complaining is not cleaning up a quote. You go with "complaining" lest you find yourself heading down the slippery slope of writing everything anyone ever says completely phonetically like you're Mark Twain writing Huck Finn.
The reason race comes into the discussion -- and I wouldn't go so far as to call the AP guy racist exactly -- is that people tend to normalize words that are spoken like they speak whether it be because of regional differences, racial-cultural differences, or whatever.
If I hear Nick Saban say "I told ire guys at halftime 'we ah gonna go out 'ere and we ah gonna knock 'em offa tha line" I write "I told our guys at halftime 'we're going to go out there and we're going knock them off the line."
Why? Again, because I'm not getting myself into a situation where I'm ciphering every quote I ever get for a phonetic spelling. The only argument for quoting the way the AP story quoted is that if the speaker spoke in a different dialect than he normally speaks purposefully for effect, then it is okay to quote him as such. But if you do that you need to explain that observation and justify the use of the dialectical quote.
E.g. "Shake it off. Stop complainin'. Stop grumblin'. Stop cryin'," Obama said in an intentionally traditional African-American dialect to the CBC audience.
In other words, if you want to go there -- if you're going to allude to the dialect in your quote -- you ought to have the balls to explain why you felt like it was necessary to do such. Otherwise, you're just trying to be a literary, and that doesn't work in news reporting.
The reason race comes into the discussion -- and I wouldn't go so far as to call the AP guy racist exactly -- is that people tend to normalize words that are spoken like they speak whether it be because of regional differences, racial-cultural differences, or whatever.
If I hear Nick Saban say "I told ire guys at halftime 'we ah gonna go out 'ere and we ah gonna knock 'em offa tha line" I write "I told our guys at halftime 'we're going to go out there and we're going knock them off the line."
Why? Again, because I'm not getting myself into a situation where I'm ciphering every quote I ever get for a phonetic spelling. The only argument for quoting the way the AP story quoted is that if the speaker spoke in a different dialect than he normally speaks purposefully for effect, then it is okay to quote him as such. But if you do that you need to explain that observation and justify the use of the dialectical quote.
E.g. "Shake it off. Stop complainin'. Stop grumblin'. Stop cryin'," Obama said in an intentionally traditional African-American dialect to the CBC audience.
In other words, if you want to go there -- if you're going to allude to the dialect in your quote -- you ought to have the balls to explain why you felt like it was necessary to do such. Otherwise, you're just trying to be a literary, and that doesn't work in news reporting.
reformedhack
Well-Known Member
President Obama, quoted in David Remnick's 2010 biography, The Bridge: The Life and Rise of Barack Obama, acknowledges tweaking his dialect depending on the audience.
"The fact that I conjugate my verbs and speak in a typical Midwestern newscaster's voice -- there's no doubt that this helps ease communication between myself and white audiences. And there's no doubt that when I'm with a black audience I slip into a slightly different dialect. But the point is, I don't feel the need to speak a certain way in front of a black audience. There's a level of self-consciousness about these issues the previous generation had to negotiate that I don't feel I have to."
It's quoted in the Washington Post here -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/02/AR2010040201516.html -- and can be found elsewhere.
Considering this, relative to the topic of this thread, I'd like to believe the AP reporter was simply trying to illustrate the scene with no underlying motive.
"The fact that I conjugate my verbs and speak in a typical Midwestern newscaster's voice -- there's no doubt that this helps ease communication between myself and white audiences. And there's no doubt that when I'm with a black audience I slip into a slightly different dialect. But the point is, I don't feel the need to speak a certain way in front of a black audience. There's a level of self-consciousness about these issues the previous generation had to negotiate that I don't feel I have to."
It's quoted in the Washington Post here -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/02/AR2010040201516.html -- and can be found elsewhere.
Considering this, relative to the topic of this thread, I'd like to believe the AP reporter was simply trying to illustrate the scene with no underlying motive.
@ Point of Order: An "intentionally traditional African-American dialect?"
I'm not sure I like the sound of that phrase. That assumes there is such a thing. I get what you're saying and I agree with it, but I think it gets messy when you try to explain things too much.
I do agree you can't phoneticize every quote. And you have to clean things up. There's a difference between watching the video of the speech and reading quotes in a news story. The presentation is different and it's going to strike people differently.
Yesterday I heard Mike Ditka on the radio and every couple of sentences were prefaced with, "I mean." If you're writing a story, you hack those out.
I'm not sure I like the sound of that phrase. That assumes there is such a thing. I get what you're saying and I agree with it, but I think it gets messy when you try to explain things too much.
I do agree you can't phoneticize every quote. And you have to clean things up. There's a difference between watching the video of the speech and reading quotes in a news story. The presentation is different and it's going to strike people differently.
Yesterday I heard Mike Ditka on the radio and every couple of sentences were prefaced with, "I mean." If you're writing a story, you hack those out.
