Natalee Holloway

[HejiraHenry]

If that had been my daughter, the headlines today would be:

Still no clues in deaths of murder suspects

The Holloways trusted the system and the system let them down. Like the undertaker in The Godfather, they should have appealed to a higher authority. I bet you coulda scattered $10K around that island and got yourself some rough justice, at least.

 

[KG]

Maybe $10K could still buy them answers.

 

[spnited]

Great idea, Henry.
Let's go get some vigilante justice and kill a few people who may or may not be guilty.

 

[Double Down]

When do we leave? I want to make arrangements for someone to feed my cat.

 

[Lyman_Bostock]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

 

[rallen13]

Just ask them if they would like to meet Luca Brasi. I have the newspaper to wrap the fish in.

 

[Armchair_QB]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

Excellent point.

When did a trip to Padre or Daytona become sub-standard spring break/graduation trip options?

 

[rallen13]

In all seriousness, and with all due respect to a young lady who never had a chance with these three guys (if they are the ones responsible), why the Hell was she out tarting around, as everyone including her friends said she was, if she was such a precious. None of us here (hopefully) would want to do her permanent harm, but given how attractive she was, how many of us here would not have tried a little something with her like they admittedly did. I have to think a lot of men have taken advantage of a situation like that with someone who has had too much to drink (or whatever). She obviously knew how to drink (or whatever), how to make out, and apparently how to.......Where were the parents, chaperones, friends, at. al. when she needed them? And where was her common sense? And if she had no sense, why, like L_B said, why was she there at all. Somebody's failure to recognize her actions long before she took the trip indirectly set her up by letting her go.

 

[Point of Order]

Imitating something you saw on The Godfather is always a sound strategy.

 

[HejiraHenry]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

This is a good point, probably a better point than the one I kicked this off with. My wife, who's more familiar with such things, says it's routine for parents hereabouts to sign off on such trips. Not at our house.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

In all seriousness, and with all due respect to a young lady who never had a chance with these three guys (if they are the ones responsible), why the Hell was she out tarting around, as everyone including her friends said she was, if she was such a precious. None of us here (hopefully) would want to do her permanent harm, but given how attractive she was, how many of us here would not have tried a little something with her like they admittedly did. I have to think a lot of men have taken advantage of a situation like that with someone who has had too much to drink (or whatever). She obviously knew how to drink (or whatever), how to make out, and apparently how to.......Where were the parents, chaperones, friends, at. al. when she needed them? And where was her common sense? And if she had no sense, why, like L_B said, why was she there at all. Somebody's failure to recognize her actions long before she took the trip indirectly set her up by letting her go.

that's pretty harsh, my good man. You could be describing the behavior of millions of teenage girls. Thankfully, they don't all end up murdered at the end of the evening.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

In all seriousness, and with all due respect to a young lady who never had a chance with these three guys (if they are the ones responsible), why the Hell was she out tarting around, as everyone including her friends said she was, if she was such a precious. None of us here (hopefully) would want to do her permanent harm, but given how attractive she was, how many of us here would not have tried a little something with her like they admittedly did. I have to think a lot of men have taken advantage of a situation like that with someone who has had too much to drink (or whatever). She obviously knew how to drink (or whatever), how to make out, and apparently how to.......Where were the parents, chaperones, friends, at. al. when she needed them? And where was her common sense? And if she had no sense, why, like L_B said, why was she there at all. Somebody's failure to recognize her actions long before she took the trip indirectly set her up by letting her go.

Blame the victim! She got what she deserved! Her parents are at fault!

You disgust me.

 

[wickedwritah]

In all seriousness, and with all due respect to a young lady who never had a chance with these three guys (if they are the ones responsible), why the Hell was she out tarting around, as everyone including her friends said she was, if she was such a precious. None of us here (hopefully) would want to do her permanent harm, but given how attractive she was, how many of us here would not have tried a little something with her like they admittedly did. I have to think a lot of men have taken advantage of a situation like that with someone who has had too much to drink (or whatever). She obviously knew how to drink (or whatever), how to make out, and apparently how to.......Where were the parents, chaperones, friends, at. al. when she needed them? And where was her common sense? And if she had no sense, why, like L_B said, why was she there at all. Somebody's failure to recognize her actions long before she took the trip indirectly set her up by letting her go.

Blame the victim! She got what she deserved! Her parents are at fault!

You disgust me.

Did you not read rallen's post?

He put a big part of the onus on the parents.

And they deserve it in this sense: An 18-year-old isn't necessarily ready to play adult.

They did not deserve to have their daughter disappear, no one does.

 

[rallen13]

I take your criticisms without complaint Captain_Kirk and TheSportsPredict. I do so because I shoud have perhaps been clearer in what I said. I don't defend the defendents. After all, I am the one who mentioned Luca Brasi. And no, I don't condemn the victim either. But I would have to wonder what my feeings as a parent would be IF I knew that my senior high daughter had made some poor choices and yet I let her walk into a situation like Natalee did. I would never forgive myself for not doing something to correct a behavior that could lead to trouble. And if I didn't know what she did or was doing, I would have to ask myself if I had served her well as a parent or if I had been guilty of letting her fall through the cracks without doing enough to warn or protect her. The perpetrators, whoever they are, need to be found and harshly dealt with to the fullest. But let us not as parents walk around with a blind eye to what our children may be doing or may have done, and do nothing about it. That is indirectly putting them in harms way. If she had been doing anything questionable and they knew it, letting her go on that trip was an invitation to disaster. It is my genuine hope that she had not, and that she was the true precious child we are told about. Precious she and all children are and should be to us all. But human she was also. And a teenager. And as one who has worked with students from middle to high school for over 30 years, I have seen too many like her make wrong and sometimes tragic decisions. I weep for her and for the students I have lost; to suicide, murder, preventable accident, and one top drawer student-athlete to the state executioner for a single wrong decision by an otherwise fine young man.

 

[Lyman_Bostock]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

Excellent point.

When did a trip to Padre or Daytona become sub-standard spring break/graduation trip options?

I think I was fortunate to go 30 miles to Six Flags for a graduation trip. No way in hell my folks would foot the bill/give their blessing for Padre or Daytona, let alone somewhere out of the country.

Holloway didn't deserve what happened to her. Of course not. But the odds of it happening would have been dramatically lowered if she weren't 17 years old in Aruba.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

I think tragedies like this happen to children of good parents as well as children of bad parents. I think tragedies like this happen to adult women who come from good families as well as bad. I think tragedies like this happen to people who don't necessarily place themselves into situations which give people the opportunity to say they deserved it.

The people to blame here are the lying pigs who did whatever they did to her. Since no one can say exactly who they are we turn our emotions to the only people we know who were involved in this, and that's the victim and her family.

P.S. I went to Quebec as a high school senior on a trip for my French class. Some girls went, too. And then when my group got off the elevator at our hotel there was a whole group of girls from some other trip waiting for us there cuz they saw our suitcases with some boys names on them. I don't know who was good and who was bad on that trip (probably because I was good), but no one died.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

This is a good point, probably a better point than the one I kicked this off with. My wife, who's more familiar with such things, says it's routine for parents hereabouts to sign off on such trips. Not at our house.

Why are children rewarded for graduating high school. Isn't that to be expected?

 

[Norman Stansfield]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

This is a good point, probably a better point than the one I kicked this off with. My wife, who's more familiar with such things, says it's routine for parents hereabouts to sign off on such trips. Not at our house.

Why are children rewarded for graduating high school. Isn't that to be expected?

You didn't receive gifts when you graduated high school? You didn't have a party?

 

[KG]

If that had been my daughter, I never would have let her go to Aruba in the first place.

This is a good point, probably a better point than the one I kicked this off with. My wife, who's more familiar with such things, says it's routine for parents hereabouts to sign off on such trips. Not at our house.

Why are children rewarded for graduating high school. Isn't that to be expected?

First let me start with I think 17 is way too young to go on a trip like that without parents. But with that said, it seems you think the vacation is a reward for graduating. So does that make your vacation from work a reward? Is doing your job not something that's to be expected anyway?

I see nothing wrong with a little reward, so long as it is safe.

 

[deskslave]

Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that what actually happened is what the guys said happened: For whatever reason, they left her there on the beach by herself? And then, because she was drunk, she decided it would be totally fun to go swimming, and she got pulled out to sea and drowned? They're not going to try these guys because they don't have any proof that they killed her, Nancy Grace's screaming aside.

To me, the justice system there did its job. They identified with whom she was last seen, they tried to figure out if those people killed her and they realized they didn't have evidence to prove those people did.