Ichiro and the Hall

[93Devil]

has to be Ichiro.

We will never see 200 hits for 10 straight seasons again, and when you combine that with nine straight Gold Gloves, well the guy is just flat amazing.

You could very easily argue that he has been the greatest basball player of the past decade, and the general public east of the Missisippi has no idea who he is.

 

[WolvEagle]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Devil - You might be right. And, it's because he's on a West Coast team that plays after the East Coast papers' deadlines. If he played for an East Coast team, especially the Yankees, he'd be a baseball god.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I also think there's a cultural divide. Ichiro supposedly speaks excellent English, but chooses to conduct most interviews in Japanese or with an interpreter. He's also apparently a very private person (which speaks to the previous point). To my knowledge, there's never been an in-depth English-language profile written about him, even though he's bigger than Peyton Manning and LeBron James combined in Japan.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Much of the commentary on Ichiro in the past few years has actually been negative "He's not that good." It's all stat-driven. Ichiro doesn't walk enough for a leadoff hitter, singles suck, etc. He has been the victim of ideology as much as time zone and the fact Mariners stink.
All I know is that he remains one of my favorite players to watch, which remains what I like most about baseball -- watching.
Yeah, he'd have been better if he walked more. But why can't we accept that greatness comes in many forms, and appreciate it when it comes our way?

 

[cranberry]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

That will pass. After 10 unassailable years there's going to be some nitpicking. He hasn't taken the Mariners to the World Series! But he's revered among players, a national icon in Japan, and maybe the smartest, most well-rounded players we'll ever see. He's a more complete than guys like Rose or our beloved Rod Carew or (sacrilege!) Derek Jeter. He prepares meticulously and understands his body as well as any athlete I've ever seen. It's like he's always a split second quicker than everyone on the field.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I disagree with the premise that Ichiro is overlooked.

9 out of the 10 seasons he was named to the starting team for the All-Star game. Overlooked? Hardly.

 

[TigerVols]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I disagree with the premise that Ichiro is overlooked.

9 out of the 10 seasons he was named to the starting team for the All-Star game. Overlooked? Hardly.

Devil's right. Your argument is valid, but flawed, when you factor in the enormous number of online votes from Japan Ichiro gets.

My biggest regret as a Halo fan is that Ichiro never wore an Angels jersey. Had he been on the team a few years ago, the Angels would have 1 or 2 more WS.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I think he's rated about right.

He's pretty much who everyone thinks he is: An All-Star caliber player who in his best seasons is in the discussion for most valuable but probably not quite there.

He just gets there in an interesting, unbalanced way: Fantastic defense, tons of hits, a few more outs than you'd like out of a leadoff hitter and little extra-base power.

He led the league in WAR once, and his 2001 MVP wouldn't have been my choice but doesn't rank among the worst choices ever.

 

[Crash]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I disagree with the premise that Ichiro is overlooked.

9 out of the 10 seasons he was named to the starting team for the All-Star game. Overlooked? Hardly.

Devil's right. Your argument is valid, but flawed, when you factor in the enormous number of online votes from Japan Ichiro gets.

My biggest regret as a Halo fan is that Ichiro never wore an Angels jersey. Had he been on the team a few years ago, the Angels would have 1 or 2 more WS.

In addition, casual baseball fans know who Ichiro is, and they know that he's damn good.

But I think there are a lot of hardcore baseball fans who don't understand how good he's been for a decade now. Had Ichiro played a full career in the States, he could have conceivably been chasing Rose right now.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

I may even go the other way and say all this talk about 200-hit season is in fact over-rating Ichiro's impact and greatness.

Ted Williams never had a 200-hit season. Would you argue that Ichiro was the greater hitter? Of course not.

Then what exactly is the import of a 200-hit season? Sure it helps you get on base but Ichiro has had only one year with a OBP over .400. He's also only had two seasons with over 300 total bases. That's not much production when you are talking about 10-straight 200 hit seasons.

I love Ichiro and think he's a first ballot guy but I don't buy that he's been overlooked or underrated in his career.

 

[HejiraHenry]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

You could very easily argue that he has been the greatest basball player of the past decade, and the general public east of the Missisippi has no idea who he is.

Albert Pujols and I would politely beg to differ.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

You could very easily argue that he has been the greatest basball player of the past decade, and the general public east of the Missisippi has no idea who he is.

Albert Pujols and I would politely beg to differ.

Pujols doesn't even bother. The longish list of other guys better do all the arguing and he just stands there looking dignified.

 

[albert77]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Pujols is a better all-around hitter, the best of his generation, but Ichiro is the better batsman. By that, I mean he can put a baseball anywhere he wants any time he wants better than any player I've ever seen. Ichiro is also a better defensive player than just about any of his contemporaries. He is always in the right position and his arm is phenomenal.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Pujols is a great hitter.

Ichiro is a great baseball player.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Ichiro is a great hitter. Pujols is a great offensive player.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Ichiro is a great hitter. Pujols is a great offensive player.

Being a great hitter is part of being a great baseball player.

 

[Double Down]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Pujols is a better all-around hitter, the best of his generation, but Ichiro is the better batsman.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Baseball is not cricket. If Pujols wanted, he could shorten his stance, twirl the bat around like a badminton racket, and slap the ball the other way just as effectively. Pujols could probably turn into Wade Boggs if necessary. Could Ichiro turn into David Ortiz? No way.

Ichiro is a great player. Maybe the most unique player in MLB history. But he's not a better "batsman" that Albert Pujols.

I'd wager Pujols could attempt to do what Ichrio does, despite his total lack of speed, better than Ichiro could attempt to do what Pujols does.

Manager: Hey Ichiro, you can put the ball anywhere you want, right? Could you put it 500 feet over the right field fence?

Ichiro: (副) いいえ; はい; まさか; いや

Manager: Hmm. I guess that's a no.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Ichiro is a great hitter. Pujols is a great offensive player.

Being a great hitter is part of being a great baseball player.

So is drawing walks and hitting for power.

 

[DanOregon]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Most great players, most Hall of Fame players, you can see at least one play they'll always be remembered for.
Ichiro? Hard to get worked up about an opposite field single with no one on base. He's never driven in 70 runs in a season.

 

[MacDaddy]

Re: The most overlooked athlete I have ever seen...

Ichiro is a pretty bad base runner, which doesn't always enter the discussion. It's pretty amazing how bad he is, considering his speed.