Goodbye USGP

[Bubbler]

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/SPORTS01/707120523

I'm a big F1 fan and I've covered the USGP so I'm bummed right now.

That article takes a few historical liberties. Watkins Glen left the F1 calendar because of track financial problems and an inability to upgrade for safety, it drew pretty well in the 70s. Long Beach's date (since then a CART/Champ Car race) was lured away by Dallas, which was a disaster.

Not mentioned was Detroit's Grand Prix, which was boring, but was a relative success. They tried to move it to Belle Isle (where CART later raced and the IRL will race this year), but couldn't work out a deal and the race moved to Phoenix, which was a resounding flop as the article stated.

 

[Bob Cook]

The tire debacle really sealed the deal on this race not coming back. I hope the USGP comes back, but if it's not going to work in Indy, I can't imagine where it will. With Bernie sniffing he doesn't need the U.S., the USGP only comes back if Vegas or someone wants to throw him buckets of money, which apparently Tony George didn't do.

The attendance was down, but the USGP was still one of Formula One's biggest live crowds of the circuit, no?

 

[playthrough]

As the story said, that's a big blow for the city of Indianapolis. There was a study done on the per-person spending by USGP, Indy 500 and Brickyard 400 fans, I forget the numbers but the USGP fans were way out front. The overseas crowd (and wannabes) has no qualms about paying sky-high room rates and running up huge restaurant tabs.

 

[ThomsonONE]

Indy was a crap circuit, no great loss there. Bernie is always looking to maximize revenue, and places like India are willing to pay much larger fees for a race. I can't say I'm unhappy about seeing Tony George come out of this empty handed.

If you want to see F1 live, go to Montreal. A weekend in Montreal doesn't compare with one in Indianapolis.

Bernie is correct in saying he doesn't need the US. The sport is massively popular in the rest of the world, Indy won't be missed.

 

[playthrough]

Bernie is an arrogant clown. Ferrari sells more cars in the U.S. than anywhere else, and BMW and Mercedes do pretty darn well too. HE might not need the U.S., but a lot of companies that do business with F1 appreciate being here.

Agreed, the Indy racecourse was nothing to write home about. There have been talks about tweaking it, but on the other hand it's not like that would spur better racing out of F1. It's a first-man-through-the-first-turn-wins league.

 

[GB-Hack]

I see your point play, but Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes are going to sell just as many cars in the U.S. whether there's a race here or not.

I don't think people translate a C-Class, 5 Series or a GTB Fiorano to the vehicles that race in F1 as NASCAR fans do with a Camry, Fusion or Charger.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Bernie is a jackass.

I'm pretty bummed about this. I'll probably go to Canada instead next season, but I'll miss Indy.

It was kind of a dopey circuit as the drivers are concerned but it's terrific from a fan's standpoint. And the dopeyness had nothing to do with losing the race; it's purely a matter of Bernie figuring he can get more cash out of a government somewhere. As long as it meets the basic safety standard the quality of the race circuit is not even a consideration.

The only way it returns to the US is if Steve Wynn gets interested again and plops a circuit down in his parking lot in Vegas. Anyone who remembers the layout for Vegas will hope they can come up with a better one next time.

An absurd sidenote - Indy drew bigger crowds than Silverstone, despite Lewismania in England.

And it's not true to say Indy won't be missed. Everyone involved supposedly loves the North American swing. F1 will miss the US. This is purely an issue of Bernie's income.

 

[ThomsonONE]

PC - Whether the teams like the US weekend isn't relevant. Bernie controls the commercial rights to F1 on a 99 year lease, he does what he wants, to hell with everyone else. Out of any sport, Bernie has by far the most dictatorial commercial powers. In other sports the comissioner can eventually be fired by the owners, but Bernie IS the owner, he can never be fired.

Since I've never been to Indy for the F1 race, I won't miss it. It was a horrible circuit for watching on TV.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

PC - Whether the teams like the US weekend isn't relevant. Bernie controls the commercial rights to F1 on a 99 year lease, he does what he wants, to hell with everyone else. Out of any sport, Bernie has by far the most dictatorial commercial powers. In other sports the comissioner can eventually be fired by the owners, but Bernie IS the owner, he can never be fired.

That's true, but it doesn't mean Indy won't be missed. It won't be missed by Bernie. It will be missed by the manufacturers and sponsors who like reaching the American audience.

 

[Bubbler]

I'll miss it ... from both a fan and media standpoint. I'll miss it on the simple level that it was our race and I liked having a place to go to fulfill my F1 jones.

I know I never covered anything more unique or been exposed to so many different types of media and people. I met a lot of good folks from over the pond in the races I covered, most notably a lot of cool Brits. I also got to find out firsthand what a dickhead Scott Speed is too!

The '05 race -- debacle though it was -- was probably the most compelling and fluid news/sports event I've ever covered. The paddock was tense that morning with rumors starting and flaming out within minutes, people running all over the paddock trying to track down those in the know, with no one knowing for sure until the cars pulled off exactly what was going to happen. I've never had a more fascinating day of journalism in my career. I've never been near physically sick as I was when I watched the fans on the front straightaway find out what I already knew behind the scenes ... that the race was going to be a farce.

The course was definitely not the best, but it's not the worst either. I prefer Indy over Hungary, Magny-Cours (also gone next year), Catalunya and most of the new Tilke tracks (though not Turkey, which is awesome). The set-up compromises that had to made for the track would create some oddball grids and oddball final results. And the F1 drivers have never really mastered the entrance to Turn 1 off the start, which has created havoc.

I got to see Minardi score points in two different races, which makes up for me having never seen a baseball no-hitter!

I hope it will be back in '09, but I doubt it. Looks like I better start focusing on MotoGP.

 

[Clerk Typist]

As Bubbler says, USGP 05 was fascinating. At lunch, the Brit reporters were 50-50 about whether there would be a race at all, but nobody expected the pull-in by the Bridgestone crowd once they took the pace/formation/parade lap. Fans went from disbelieving to ticked to either livid or sad, but those who didn't walk out in the early laps eventually were pleased that someone was running.
I remember Chris Economaki saying on the radio, "This could be the end of Formula One in the United States." Two years later, he's right. It was the final straw. Attendance was down in 07 from the freebie GP of 06, and, Montoya fan absence aside, mostly because of 05.

 

[slappy4428]

Good thing Tony George made all the modifications to the IMS to satisfy the F! assclowns...

 

[Clerk Typist]

What was it Bernie Lincicome wrote? "A German wants a window, they build him a palace." Something like that.
The press center beats the old one by a factor of infinity plus 1.

 

[lono]

After 2005, this was inevitable.

It sucks, but it was inevitable.

 

[Bubbler]

Considering 2005, I thought crowds were very respectable. And I think attendance was slightly up this year. It appeared so in person. I thought they'd be significantly down with no Schumacher and no Montoya (though many Colombian flags were evident anyway).

I'm not ruling F1 out at Indy in the future either. Under Ecclestone, tracks have disappeared and reappeared (most notably the much beloved Spa), so it's not totally out of the question.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Yeah, I keep seeing stuff about the crowds... the crowd was pretty freakin' large this year, and it was still one of the biggest in F1. I think the Poles and Brazilians made up for the Colombians and the Schumacher wing of the Tifosi. Like I said earlier, the crowd was bigger than Silverstone's in a year when a British rookie is leading the championship.

I'd love to see it return, but I think that will probably be dependent on one thing: Bernie's funeral. Tony George clearly loathes dealing with him, and I can't imagine the price tag is going to get lower. The best bet for the US is Steve Wynn's parking lot. (Hell, Vegas probably even has a hotel that would be acceptable to Bernie so he wouldn't have to take a chopper in each morning, like he did at Indy.)

 

[Freelance Hack]

My F1 knowledge is rather limited, but can F1 cars race on city streets? Or are they strictly limited to road courses?

If they can run on the streets, it would be nice to see them on the Vegas strip.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

My F1 knowledge is rather limited, but can F1 cars race on city streets? Or are they strictly limited to road courses?

If they can run on the streets, it would be nice to see them on the Vegas strip.

They can race on streets -- they do it at Monaco, and they're adding a Singapore street race next year.

The strip would be pretty cool, but it would also require shutting down a section of the strip and restricting access along it, and it's hard to imagine the casinos going for that.

It would probably have to be done away from the strip, like Champ Car did, or on the grounds of a resort, like the horrid Vegas GP of the early 80s which was run in the parking lot of Caesar's Palace. The resort one makes a lot more sense, but Steve Wynn is reportedly the only one who has publicly pursued a race for Vegas, and I've been looking at aerial shots of his resort -- there's very little surface parking and virtually no roads through the Wynn, so that one wouldn't work.

There are other resorts where you could do it relatively easily, I think. It would probably work at the Mandalay Bay without turning into the wretched slalom course that was Caesar's Palace.

This, incidentally, was the layout:

 

[Mira]

The USGP draws the biggest crowd of any race on the F1 circuit.

I know they'd never race there, but Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wis., would be a spectacular course for an F1 race. The track, which is set in the woods, is incredible.

 

[crimsonace]

The USGP draws the biggest crowd of any race on the F1 circuit.

But if you listen to Bernie, it must be anything but, because it's the third-largest race at the track. Bernie can't handle playing second-fiddle to (to use his words when the ill-fated Phoenix GP was badly outdrawn by NASCAR) "saloon cars on a s#!++y oval," much less playing third-fiddle.

The USGP's past involves ...
1. Michael Schumacher pulling over to give Rubens Barrichello a win (to make up for "team orders" earlier in the year) ... and the thought of giving away a win at Indianapolis is a bit of an anathema to American racing followers, kind of like whizzing on the Mona Lisa.
2. The famed Michelin tire debacle, which was fueled by Ralf Schumacher's inability to drive through the oval's T1.
... both of which drove down crowds.

Also, most of the European and Asian races are subsidized by the local or national governments. Indy is completely paid for by Tony George and the Hulman family. They don't get any government funds (and actually, do pay property taxes on the IMS land).

Indy isn't a great RC -- the technical sections are *very* slow and technical, and the only real place to pass without outbraking is the oval portion -- but I love the mix between the fast portions (Turn 12 to Turn 1 -- the ovals south chute, T1 and frontstretch) and the technical portions requiring a compromise on setup. Are you going for speed on the straight and in the highest-speed corner in F1, or are you going to go for handling on the infield portion?

And much-agreed about Road America. It's by far the best natural-terrain road course in the U.S. (although Cristiano da Matta might disagree).