Fred McGriff: Hall of Famer?

[Dick Whitman]

It's time to take a new, long look at the Crime Dog, knowing what we know now about many of his peers.

493 HRs.
134 OPS-plus.
.377 OBP

I'm having difficulty constructing an argument against, to be honest.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml

 

[da man]

Damn right I'm a Hall of Famer.

 

[Drip]

Hall of very good, not very great. I've debated his numbers and the Crime Dog doesn't merit immortal status. Great guy. Just doesn't get a free ride to Cooperstown.

 

[Moderator1]

Another in an endless line of candidates for the Hall of Really, Really Good.
If that gets you in the Hall of Fame, something is wrong.

Really, really good for a long, long time.

Not a Hall of Famer. Some All-Star games, four times in Top Ten of MVP voting? If that's Hall of Fame, well, we sure have ****ty standards

But, hey, at least it is another Hall of Fame thread!!

 

[Dick Whitman]

But, hey, at least it is another Hall of Fame thread!!

Yeah, it's so untimely considering: (1) The HOF just had Induction Day; and (2) the A-Rod scandal.

 

[Moderator1]

But, hey, at least it is another Hall of Fame thread!!

Yeah, it's so untimely considering: (1) The HOF just had Induction Day; and (2) the A-Rod scandal.

So pick someone who might actually be a Hall of Famer

 

[Dick Whitman]

But, hey, at least it is another Hall of Fame thread!!

Yeah, it's so untimely considering: (1) The HOF just had Induction Day; and (2) the A-Rod scandal.

So pick someone who might actually be a Hall of Famer.

McGriff might be.

He had around 20-25 percent of the vote so far. Same as Tim Raines had his first few years on the ballot. Tim Raines is going to be a Hall of Famer. Bert Blyleven had 14 percent one of his early years on the ballot. Bert Blyleven is a Hall of Famer.

 

[da man]

Damn right I'm a Hall of Famer.

But I'm a Major League Super Star! You can't keep me out of the Hall of Fame!

 

[Moderator1]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

 

[Dick Whitman]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

I guess I'm speaking to a larger question: Considering how many of a guy like McGriff's peers are tainted by steroids, does someone like McGriff deserve consideration? I know you don't care about this, but he has a higher OPS-plus than Tony Gwynn.

I think the biggest thing that hurts McGriff is that he played for so many teams that he feels like a journeyman.

Also, I think he's interesting because he barely missed a couple milestones: 493 home runs, 2,490 hits. If that's 500 HRs and 2,500 hits, what are his vote totals like? I get that 2,500 isn't the coup de grace, but it's a nice round number that people like.

And people do care about that stuff. The other day, I heard a voter saying he needs Ichiro to get to 3,000 hits.

 

[da man]

I'd like to bet folding money that not every position player currently in baseball's Hall of Fame won an MVP award during his career (including only those who played since the MVP award was created).

I'm not a baseball guy, nor have I looked this up. I'm just guessing. But I feel pretty secure about that guess.

 

[Drip]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

Excellent point. He was very good. Just not great. No crime in that except he is nicknamed The Crime Dog.

 

[amraeder]

So, ****, what's your case for Fred? Lay it all out. I'm interested in reading it.

 

[Drip]

Let me put it this way. McGriff should not get in before Rafael Palmeiro.

 

[outofplace]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

I guess I'm speaking to a larger question: Considering how many of a guy like McGriff's peers are tainted by steroids, does someone like McGriff deserve consideration? I know you don't care about this, but he has a higher OPS-plus than Tony Gwynn.

I think the biggest thing that hurts McGriff is that he played for so many teams that he feels like a journeyman.

Also, I think he's interesting because he barely missed a couple milestones: 493 home runs, 2,490 hits. If that's 500 HRs and 2,500 hits, what are his vote totals like? I get that 2,500 isn't the coup de grace, but it's a nice round number that people like.

And people do care about that stuff. The other day, I heard a voter saying he needs Ichiro to get to 3,000 hits.

How do you know McGriff was clean? That's the big problem with voters putting so much weight into who they think used PEDs and who they think did not. Far too often, they are going on information that is incomplete at best.

 

[Moderator1]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

I guess I'm speaking to a larger question: Considering how many of a guy like McGriff's peers are tainted by steroids, does someone like McGriff deserve consideration? I know you don't care about this, but he has a higher OPS-plus than Tony Gwynn.

I think the biggest thing that hurts McGriff is that he played for so many teams that he feels like a journeyman.

Also, I think he's interesting because he barely missed a couple milestones: 493 home runs, 2,490 hits. If that's 500 HRs and 2,500 hits, what are his vote totals like? I get that 2,500 isn't the coup de grace, but it's a nice round number that people like.

And people do care about that stuff. The other day, I heard a voter saying he needs Ichiro to get to 3,000 hits.

I get it, I just like to rag you about Hall threads because, you know, you take it so well!

I don't know how to quantify all that, I just don't. I was asked about it on a radio show today and I said I didn't know what to believe.

That said, I don't think he was juicing. Would seven more HRs have made a difference in some people's minds? Perhaps. Not to me.

 

[Dick Whitman]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

I guess I'm speaking to a larger question: Considering how many of a guy like McGriff's peers are tainted by steroids, does someone like McGriff deserve consideration? I know you don't care about this, but he has a higher OPS-plus than Tony Gwynn.

I think the biggest thing that hurts McGriff is that he played for so many teams that he feels like a journeyman.

Also, I think he's interesting because he barely missed a couple milestones: 493 home runs, 2,490 hits. If that's 500 HRs and 2,500 hits, what are his vote totals like? I get that 2,500 isn't the coup de grace, but it's a nice round number that people like.

And people do care about that stuff. The other day, I heard a voter saying he needs Ichiro to get to 3,000 hits.

How do you know McGriff was clean? That's the big problem with voters putting so much weight into who they think used PEDs and who they think did not. Far too often, they are going on information that is incomplete at best.

I don't. That's a fair point. But I'm just the guy who is ignorant about baseball. So give that whatever weight it deserves.

 

[Dick Whitman]

From Wiki, so take that into consideration: He received 21.5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility. In 2011, McGriff received 104 votes (17.9 percent of total votes cast) for induction.


I don't see him making that big of a jump and don't think he should. Heck, I was around some of those Braves teams. Hell of a player, decent to deal with in some of my limited exposure. But don't you have to WIN a few MVPs? We need to raise standards, not lower them.

I guess I'm speaking to a larger question: Considering how many of a guy like McGriff's peers are tainted by steroids, does someone like McGriff deserve consideration? I know you don't care about this, but he has a higher OPS-plus than Tony Gwynn.

I think the biggest thing that hurts McGriff is that he played for so many teams that he feels like a journeyman.

Also, I think he's interesting because he barely missed a couple milestones: 493 home runs, 2,490 hits. If that's 500 HRs and 2,500 hits, what are his vote totals like? I get that 2,500 isn't the coup de grace, but it's a nice round number that people like.

And people do care about that stuff. The other day, I heard a voter saying he needs Ichiro to get to 3,000 hits.

I get it, I just like to rag you about Hall threads because, you know, you take it so well!

I'd take it better if I didn't know that you had the power to lock them - and have exercised it.

 

[Moderator1]

Is this one locked? Or have I tried to contribute to the discussion? Or were you just looking for a way to give me ****?

 

[Dick Whitman]

Is this one locked? Or have I tried to contribute to the discussion? Or were you just looking for a way to give me ****?

No, no. Not at all. I was just explaining why I vehemently stand up for a Hall of Fame thread - so that you don't think it's a farce and lock it.