Football scoring question ... last one

[Rhody31]

Bumble**** High is at the opposition's three yard line and Johnny Lineman runs it up the gut, but fumbles just before reaching the end zone. A teammate picks it up.
Three yards rushing for Johnny Lineman and a zero yard return for his teammate?

 

[dixiehack]

Two yards rushing. Three is reserved for an actual score.

 

[Rhody31]

Two yards rushing. Three is reserved for an actual score.

But then wouldn't there be a missing yard in the drive? If they started at the 10, picked up seven yards, then I gave him a two-yard run, I'm missing a yard. That's what's confusing me right now.

 

[rmanfredi]

Where was the fumble recovered? If it was in the end zone for a touchback, it's a -1 yard fumble recovery. If it was recovered short of the end zone, it's "technically" at the 1 - a run of two yards and nothing on the return.

 

[Smash Williams]

Can you advance a fumble forward if it's not the ball carrier? I know the NFL really limits that, and a quick discussion at my office reveals that we're unclear on NFHS rules.

If it's legal, then I could give two yards to the original ball carrier and two rush yards with no carry (like the hook-and-lateral or the holding call scenarios) and a touchdown to the guy who eventually scored.

If the ball wasn't advanced and it's at the half-yard line, then it's just 2 yards and a recovery by teammate. Fumbling the ball into the end zone itself should have been a touchback for the defensive team.

 

[Rhody31]

Where was the fumble recovered? If it was in the end zone for a touchback, it's a -1 yard fumble recovery. If it was recovered short of the end zone, it's "technically" at the 1 - a run of two yards and nothing on the return.

Ball was stripped short of the goal - inside the one - and fell into the end zone, where a teammate landed on it for a touchdown.
The officials got together for a few minutes to figure out what happened. In the press box, we thought the lineman got in, but he didn't have the ball when they checked the pile because it had come out. His teammate had it, so they ruled TD.
Right now I'm giving the linemen the yards, with the teammate getting 0 yards and just a TD.

 

[HandsomeHarley]

I would put it down as a 2-yard rush and a 1-yard fumble return. The boxscore would read Smith 1 fum return.

 

[dirtybird]

Via the NCAA stats manual. Fumbler gets all three yards. Kid with the recovery gets no carry, no yards and a TD.

 

[mediaguy]

Why does Bumble**** continue to make these kinds of mistakes in key situations?

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

You cannot have a "fumble return" of a teammate's fumble. *



* Unless you are, say, Jim Marshall.

 

[lone star scribe]

You also can't have a first down at the opponents' 10-yard line. If the offensive team can earn a first down, it's the 11-yard line, even if it's 10 yards and 1 inch. Inside the the 10 is first-and-goal from the 9. Just adjust your offensive stats accordingly for the play that gained the first down around the 10. Happens all the time in college games.

 

[Rhody31]

You also can't have a first down at the opponents' 10-yard line. If the offensive team can earn a first down, it's the 11-yard line, even if it's 10 yards and 1 inch. Inside the the 10 is first-and-goal from the 9. Just adjust your offensive stats accordingly for the play that gained the first down around the 10. Happens all the time in college games.

That doesn't make any sense at all.
You can't be at the nine if you haven't gained the line. If you're at the 9 1/2, it's the 10.

 

[Mike Harris not that one]

If the fumble is recovered in the end zone Smith gets credit for the 3-yard run and Jones gets credit for the recovery. the scoreline would read.

BF - Jones fumble recovery in end zone (Sparky kick)

If Jones recovers at the 1 and advances it, yes Smith gets a 2-yard run and Jones would get a one carry for 1 yard.

 

[mediaguy]

"If you're at the 9 1/2, it's the 10."

Um, no. If the ball is between the yard lines, its placement statistically is at the next yard line forward. It'd be at the 10 if you were at your own 9 1/2, 90 yards from the end zone you're driving toward. Only exceptions are when you've barely failed to reach a first down, where statistically you are a yard short of the first-down line, or if you're inside the 1-yard line, where you're still statistically at the 1.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

And if you make a first down in the red zone between the 11 and 10 -- and thus could get another first down without scoring a TD. You're at the 11.

 

[Rhody31]

"If you're at the 9 1/2, it's the 10."

Um, no. If the ball is between the yard lines, its placement statistically is at the next yard line forward. It'd be at the 10 if you were at your own 9 1/2, 90 yards from the end zone you're driving toward. Only exceptions are when you've barely failed to reach a first down, where statistically you are a yard short of the first-down line, or if you're inside the 1-yard line, where you're still statistically at the 1.

I see what you're saying, but I've never seen it done that way. If a guy is at the 9 1/2 and needs to go 90 yards for a touchdown and they score, it's a 91-yard TD every single time.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

"If you're at the 9 1/2, it's the 10."

Um, no. If the ball is between the yard lines, its placement statistically is at the next yard line forward. It'd be at the 10 if you were at your own 9 1/2, 90 yards from the end zone you're driving toward. Only exceptions are when you've barely failed to reach a first down, where statistically you are a yard short of the first-down line, or if you're inside the 1-yard line, where you're still statistically at the 1.

I see what you're saying, but I've never seen it done that way. If a guy is at the 9 1/2 and needs to go 90 yards for a touchdown and they score, it's a 91-yard TD every single time.

Every college and NFL game I ever covered says "No."

High school games? Yeah, I've seen lots of variations in stats and yard lines (and not just for that reason).

 

[rtse11]

If the fumble is recovered in the end zone Smith gets credit for the 3-yard run and Jones gets credit for the recovery. the scoreline would read.

BF - Jones fumble recovery in end zone (Sparky kick)

If Jones recovers at the 1 and advances it, yes Smith gets a 2-yard run and Jones would get a one carry for 1 yard.

I don't believe that last part is correct, because you can't have 2 players getting credit for a rushing attempt on one play. In high school, Smith gets a 2-yard rush and Jones gets a fumble recovery and 1yard rushing, and a rushing touchdown, but no attempt. It's the same as an option play when the pitch is made beyond the LOS.

 

[lone star scribe]

If the fumble is recovered in the end zone Smith gets credit for the 3-yard run and Jones gets credit for the recovery. the scoreline would read.

BF - Jones fumble recovery in end zone (Sparky kick)

If Jones recovers at the 1 and advances it, yes Smith gets a 2-yard run and Jones would get a one carry for 1 yard.

I don't believe that last part is correct, because you can't have 2 players getting credit for a rushing attempt on one play. In high school, Smith gets a 2-yard rush and Jones gets a fumble recovery and 1yard rushing, and a rushing touchdown, but no attempt. It's the same as an option play when the pitch is made beyond the LOS.

Jones does not get any yardage for his fumble recovery, because the offense can't advance a fumble. If the ball bounces forward, original ballcarrier gets the yardage. An option play past the line of scrimmage is not a fumble. The final ballcarrier gets all the credit for the carry.

 

[deskslave]

"If you're at the 9 1/2, it's the 10."

Um, no. If the ball is between the yard lines, its placement statistically is at the next yard line forward. It'd be at the 10 if you were at your own 9 1/2, 90 yards from the end zone you're driving toward. Only exceptions are when you've barely failed to reach a first down, where statistically you are a yard short of the first-down line, or if you're inside the 1-yard line, where you're still statistically at the 1.

I see what you're saying, but I've never seen it done that way. If a guy is at the 9 1/2 and needs to go 90 yards for a touchdown and they score, it's a 91-yard TD every single time.

If the back end of the ball is touching the offense's 9-yard line, it's on the 9. If the ball is between the 9 and the 10, but touching neither line, it's on the 10.

The only exception to that rule is the first-and-10/goal quandary. If it's first-and-10, rather than first-and-goal, the ball must by definition be on the 11, because you have to be able to gain 10 yards while reaching only the 1. If it's first-and-goal, the ball is by definition on the 10.

You also award a first down for a touchdown in the former situation, but not the latter.