Does the national media understand why KY fans are tired of Tubby?

[CollegeJournalist]

Just wondering if the rest of the country has jumped onto the bandwagon inhabited by most UK fans.

Tubby Smith has yet another team falling apart going into March, making it two years in a row that his team has done this. He's woefully undertalented because of recruiting mishaps--Bobby Perry and Sheray Thomas both get quality minutes.

He routinely leaves a productive freshman on the bench (Stevenson) in favor of Perry and Thomas.

UK has fallen behind by double digits in the first 10 minutes in three consecutive games, and they scored a whopping 2 points in the first 9:45 yesterday at Alabama.

Smith has now led the Cats to 21 losses over the past two seasons, tied for the most ever in two seasons when not on probation. Assuming UK loses one more game, he will own that record by himself, along with:
--the first UK coach to lose 10 games in three consecutive seasons (next year he will become the first UK coach to lose 10 games in three consecutive seasons TWICE)
--the first UK coach to lose two straight home games to Vanderbilt
--the first UK coach since God-knows-when to lose two straight games three times in one season
--he coached the only team in UK history not to get a bye in the SEC tournament (since it started in 1992)

Smith hasn't led Kentucky to a Final Four since 1998, though, in his defense, he has been extremely close on three occasions since. Unfortunately for him, extremely close doesn't mean jack**** in Lexington.

Smith, given a semi-ultimatum to shake up the coaching staff last offseason by AD Mitch Barnhart, didn't make a single change, sticking with the same inept staff that came up with the idea that Corey Brewer was too skinny to play in the SEC, totally botched the recruiting efforts of several recruits, including Kevin Durant, Chris Lofton and Brandon Rush. Soon, you may be able to throw Marshall Moses into that equation when he blows up at Okla. St. in the next year or two.

Adding to that, UK is playing their way onto the bubble lately, and they aren't going anywhere in the NCAA Tournament.

Plus, his players have apparently given up. Asked why he didn't play well yesterday at Alabama, Randolph Morris said his "head wasn't in the game," despite the fact that UK was on the road playing against a team with two of the top big men in the SEC playing for their tournament life. And his head just wasn't in the game.

I'm trying to remain impartial on the subject, because I can see both sides, but those are the facts that many Kentucky fans cite when they say they want to get rid of Tubby.

Are they right? Or does the national media still look at them as bumbling rednecks who don't want a black coach?

 

[hondo]

Or could it be Kentucky basketball fans are like Alabama football fans...never, ever, ever happy.

Didn't Tubby win a national championship? Hasn't he won his share of conference championships?

Get over yourselves.

 

[CollegeJournalist]

Yeah, he's won his share of conference championships. And SEC basketball titles at Kentucky don't mean a whole lot.

You take them for granted when you have 43 reg. season titles and 25 tourney titles, and both of those numbers are more than the rest of the conference combined.

Hondo, it's not that UK fans don't see Smith as a good coach. I think he's a very good coach. And that's why I hesitate to say I don't want him at UK anymore.

But at the same time, part of me just doesn't think he has what it takes to be the Kentucky coach.

If you're going to avoid the blunt of the scrutiny any UK coach is going to get, you better bust your ass on the recruiting trail (he doesn't), be able to handle the media (he can't) and not just give a flying "**** you" to the AD and to obvious problems with the team and program (he does).

Kentucky scored 2 points in the first 9:45 yesterday, and Tubby cries that defense was the reason for the loss. He ignores the fact that Kentucky runs the most inept offense in America. He ignores the fact that Kentucky turns the ball over more than a 4th grade girls team. He ignores the fact that when he pulls his faves and goes with another lineup, they play better than his "boys" (Thomas and Perry).

And his teams are routinely unmotivated and don't give a ****. And if the team's don't give a ****, and Tubby doesn't appear to give a ****, should the fans realistically be expected to give a ****?

 

[imjustagirl2]

I ****ing despise Tubby Smith.

 

[Overrated]

Kentucky fans should consider themselves lucky...they could have Tommy Amaker running the ship.

 

[Yodel]

Kentucky's basketball team yesterday looked like Alabama's football team this past fall.

That was a poorly coached team which had no sense of what it was trying to do on offense.

I like Tubby, but that performance in Tuscaloosa was brutal. If you're the coach of a poorly coached team, the problem might be you.

 

[lawrenceofalabia]

CJ,
I understand your trying to gin up some heat on Tubby, but the last sentence of your first post in this thread is unecessary. It is like saying the sky is blue; or water is wet. All of the highly educated people here know that the South is made up of a bunch of rednecks that don't like black people. These fair-minded, unbiased national journalists know that the nation parks its guilt in the South. And so do most here. Just read this board. Anytime someone needs to say something incredibly stupid like "Or does the national media still look at them as bumbling rednecks who don't want a black coach?", go ahead and say it, and park it down South. No one will call you on it.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Who cares, flyover state. [/spnited]

 

[CollegeJournalist]

It's not even that I'm trying to stir up heat on Tubby. It's just that, when I hear members of the national media like Vitale proclaiming UK fans as stupid for wanting to get rid of "one of the best coaches" in the game, I wonder if they are watching the same UK basketball as me.

And the last sentence of mine was meant more as sarcasm, since I think many of the universities in the South have done plenty to prove that they aren't racist institutions--hell, half of UK's football staff is black now, including both coordinators. So what people say about Kentuckians being racists in general, I don't give two ****s about.

And bw, I am being careful what I'm wishing for. As much as I dislike Tubby, I don't know if there's a legit candidate for the job out there that I'd really want here. Donovan is the obvious choice, but I'd like to see him coach without the Big 4 for a year or two. Few is overrated, as is Jay Wright. I was a big fan of Romar, but even he's become questionable now.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Yes, Kentucky fans would be beyond stupid to can Tubby. But then again those nitwits think final fours are a birthright and what have you.

I gotta say though if they did can Smith, watching the coaching search begin would be just as fun as it was when Alabama canned Shula and no one wanted the job. Billy Donovan wouldn't even answer the phone. Jay Wright seems pretty happy owning Philadelphia now. Kentucky wouldn't ever allow itself to dare interview the coach of a mid-major, even if it was the coach at Butler or Mason or Southern Illinois or what have you. I mean ****, Mark Few isn't good enough!?!?! ****, it would allow those of us who still get amused thinking of what happened in Tuscaloosa to re-live it all over again.

 

[imjustagirl2]

I have an entire theory on this that I don't have time to go into.

Boiled down, it's that jobs like Kentucky, UNC, Duke...they're legacy jobs. No matter how good you are at the job you're at, you can NOT make the jump from a school like Notre Dame after one year (hi Matt Doherty) because you're just not ready for everything else that comes with it.

Coach K can handle it. Roy Williams can handle it. I don't know that Tubby wants everything that comes with this gig. And that's where the problem comes in.

 

[CollegeJournalist]

Yes, Kentucky fans would be beyond stupid to can Tubby. But then again those nitwits think final fours are a birthright and what have you.

I gotta say though if they did can Smith, watching the coaching search begin would be just as fun as it was when Alabama canned Shula and no one wanted the job. Billy Donovan wouldn't even answer the phone. Jay Wright seems pretty happy owning Philadelphia now. Kentucky wouldn't ever allow itself to dare interview the coach of a mid-major, even if it was the coach at Butler or Mason or Southern Illinois or what have you. I mean ****, Mark Few isn't good enough!?!?! ****, it would allow those of us who still get amused thinking of what happened in Tuscaloosa to re-live it all over again.

Actually, there are two guys at mid-majors I think UK would be very happy to interview.

One may have been one of the two or three most popular players in the history of UK. He played on the 1992 team that lost to Duke, was one of the Unforgettables, and made his name as one of the top recruiting assistants in the country at Florida and Oklahoma State. Now, he's appeared in the NCAA Tournament as South Alabama and has his team on track to win their second straight conference championship.

The other also may have been one of the most popular UK players in recent history. He led Eastern Kentucky to the NCAA Tournament two seasons ago and is now coaching UMass, where he has that program in the mix in the A-10.

And most UK fans would be happy to have either of them.

I'm still interested to hear why so many people nationally think UK would be stupid to can Smith. He's doing things at this program that haven't been done in a long time (like lose three-straight Feb games two seasons in a row, lose 10 games in 3 straight seasons, etc etc etc) and wouldn't be happening if he wasn't so lazy and unorganized on the recruiting trail.

There isn't an excuse for the way Kentucky is playing basketball over the past two seasons, whether you provide them or not.

 

[Oz]

Be careful what you wish for, UK fans. That is all.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

College hoops have changed. Fewer scholarships plus underclassmen leaving for the NBA has empowered mid-majors and changed the landscape. It's a different game than it was decades ago under Rupp. The way it was before will never be the way it is now or in the future. The sooner Kentucky fans get that through their apparently thick heads the better.

Honestly, you're going to look at the UMASS coach?! They haven't done **** since Cal was there, and to say they're in the mix in a piece of **** conference is like saying Dominos is in the mix with Pizza Hut for my order sometime. Who is impressed by that? The A-10 is below the CAA now and saying UMASS is in the mix is like saying "well, they aren't in last place, so that's a start!"

But go on, go down the path towards making yourself a laughingstock.

 

[imjustagirl2]

It's his first year there, Headbutt. I don't think he's ready for UK, but it's not like the guy's built a career by coaching a middling UMass team.

And let's not pull this "Kentucky fans don't know ****" stuff. Coaches have (likely, because I'm not going to research it) been fired with better records than Tubby has.

 

[CollegeJournalist]

Be careful what you wish for, UK fans. That is all.

My thoughts exactly.

Can you all at least humor me with an explanation?

What could possibly be worse?

We're moving fast towards irrelevancy in the college basketball world; you could argue we're already there. We're in third place in the SEC East and will likely finish fourth. We're not one of the top 3 programs right now in a conference that we've owned.

What? Can we miss the NCAA tournament? This is UK. As arrogant as it sounds, losing in the first/second round and missing the tournament are about equal.

And FH, Ford has won wherever he's been. I'm not saying he'd be the leading candidate, but I don't think UK would be "too arrogant to interview" a midmajor coach, esp. him or Pelphrey.

You can call it scholarship limitations, whatever. I call it a coach that doesn't fit into this program. If he's not willing to bust his ass on the recruiting trail or change the way he coaches basketball (when it is painfully obvious that it's not working), why are the fans faulted for wanting someone who will at least pretend that they care?

 

[Almost_Famous]

This is a lot like the Larry Coker situation in Miami that went down this year.
Underperforming ... out-recruited ... and not winning when it matters (March).

It never helps when your talent leaves early for the NBA (Rondo), but such is life when you recruit the best players in the country.

Kentucky hoops has to be tops because the football team blows, and there's no other pro sports nearby.

I followed Coker much closer, which is why i was saying he's done after the season opening loss to FSU (i was ripped for it, but oh well) ... but are you sure Kentucky is a bubble team? Have you checked their RPI? 8. 2nd toughest sked in the country. Only 3-7 vs. Top 50 teams, but that's better than Memphis.

Kentucky just doesn't have any guards, and probably will be bounced in the first or second round. Who are they suggesting take over the program?

 

[Flying Headbutt]

He didn't fit the program when he was going to the Final Four and winning national titles either. At least thats what UK fans said. Adolph Rupp isn't walking through that door, though that may be the only way to make UK fans happy.

 

[imjustagirl2]

National titles? Did I miss another one? Or one he won with guys he brought in?


Here's my beef with Tubby. Every year he ****ing yaps on and on about how the team will be more exciting. How it will run and gun and be uptempo. He recruits players that play that style, selling them a bill of goods.

And when the season starts? They're playing a half-court offense, AGAIN, with players who aren't suited to it. It's WHY they struggle in the offense, because none of them are suited to it. And Tubby refuses to either recruit to his style or style to his recruits.

 

[CollegeJournalist]

Headbutt, that's because the national media played it out that UK fans didn't like Smith.  For the majority of his career here, Smith has been popular.  It has been a small vocal minority that didn't like him, but most UK fans liked him.

You want to know why we don't like him now?  Watch the 1998 team.  Watch how they played basketball.  Now, watch how we have played basketball since the end of 2004.  It's been ****ty, it's been unbearable, and there's been no reason for it.

And don't feed me the bull**** about parity and the way the game has changed.  If it was like that, Duke and UNC wouldn't be sustaining programs the way they are.  They're doing it, and UK should be doing it too.

But they're not because of the unwillingness of their coach to bust his ass recruiting or change his style of basketball to one that is more productive.

UK scored 2 points in 10 minutes yesterday, and Smith blamed the defense for the loss.  Is he retarded?  Does he watch the games?

And A_F, guards are hardly the reason for UK's struggles.  Kentucky's problems are from their lack of a capable front court.  Thomas and Perry combined for 2 pts and 2 rebs in 30 minutes yesterday.  Perry Stevenson scored 2 points and 3 rebs in 9 minutes.  Yet Tubby refuses to take him off the bench.

And why don't they have a capable frontcourt?  Because Corey Brewer was too skinny.  Because we lost out on Tyler Smith, Tyler Hansbrough, Tasmin Mitchell, Brandon Rush, Brandan Wright, Thaddeus Young, etc etc etc because a) we don't get in the door fast enough and b) they see that no matter how productive they are as freshman, they're going to sit behind ****ty ass seniors like Perry and Thomas.

And Rondo wouldn't have done a thing for this team.  He was an absolute cancer.