Design thread

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

HERE!

 

[TenFour]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Thanks.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

You're welcome

 

[hockeybeat]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

I wish the Herald had decided upon one main story. The rails above and to the side of the O'Connell story are distracting. Also, the Bruins gamer should have been the third bullet.

 

[JRoyal]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

I still wish DP would find one page, ONE PAGE, that he actually likes and post it. He seems to know so much about page designers. My guess is he was angling for a job that a design guy got over him, and now he wanders journalism boards posting rants about how deluded designers are.

And DP, it's easy to say, hey, I deny that this is real, so you can't use it. Studies have been done, my friend, that show that design does matter to readers. Newspapers have paid for them. Schools have paid for them. Poynter and other groups have paid for them. They brought in real people and asked them real questions. Did nifty eye-track stuff. It's easy for you to say, well, that goes against what I believe so I refuse to agree with it. But it's easy for all of us to say you're a blowhard who talks a lot of talk, but when given a simple challenge to produce apage he likes, backs down like a coward.

 

[robschneider]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Since I joined in to this thread, at least half of the pages involve your guys trying to speak rationally with DyePack. It's not going to happen. It's never going to happen.

And he's not going away either.

But please just treat him like he's the 95-year old Uncle sitting in the corner on Christmas Day. He's got incredible amounts of opinions that all basically say the same thing. And you should have a converation with him to be polite, but when you get him going on something, know that you are never going to change his mind. You might have to change his Depends, though.

The sad thing is that the Deuce Pack actually has some valid opinions about newspaper designs that are prevelant in our newsrooms. But he never really talks about them. He just gives the same circle of hatred over and over again.

The great thing about this thread is that you can actually talk about design opinions and issues in a relatively burn-free atmosphere. Not listening to DyePack give the same opinion for the 1,178th time. Same one-liners too.

I really appreciate the exchanges on here, and I think we'd all be a lot happier if we pretended DP wasn't here. He can still tell the same old jokes over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. We just don't have to listen.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

I still wish DP would find one page, ONE PAGE, that he actually likes and post it. He seems to know so much about page designers. My guess is he was angling for a job that a design guy got over him, and now he wanders journalism boards posting rants about how deluded designers are.

And DP, it's easy to say, hey, I deny that this is real, so you can't use it. Studies have been done, my friend, that show that design does matter to readers. Newspapers have paid for them. Schools have paid for them. Poynter and other groups have paid for them. They brought in real people and asked them real questions. Did nifty eye-track stuff. It's easy for you to say, well, that goes against what I believe so I refuse to agree with it. But it's easy for all of us to say you're a blowhard who talks a lot of talk, but when given a simple challenge to produce apage he likes, backs down like a coward.

I wouldn't be talking about studies or cowardice when someone is claiming 95 percent of people look at a page just for design, especially when one source for that information has yet to be produced.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Since I joined in to this thread, at least half of the pages involve your guys trying to speak rationally with DyePack. It's not going to happen. It's never going to happen.

And he's not going away either.

But please just treat him like he's the 95-year old Uncle sitting in the corner on Christmas Day. He's got incredible amounts of opinions that all basically say the same thing. And you should have a converation with him to be polite, but when you get him going on something, know that you are never going to change his mind. You might have to change his Depends, though.

The sad thing is that the Deuce Pack actually has some valid opinions about newspaper designs that are prevelant in our newsrooms. But he never really talks about them. He just gives the same circle of hatred over and over again.

The great thing about this thread is that you can actually talk about design opinions and issues in a relatively burn-free atmosphere. Not listening to DyePack give the same opinion for the 1,178th time. Same one-liners too.

I really appreciate the exchanges on here, and I think we'd all be a lot happier if we pretended DP wasn't here. He can still tell the same old jokes over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. We just don't have to listen.

And thus concludes today's public service announcement from Mr. Schneider.

Tune in tomorrow for the next installment of: "Designers: We're Really Cool and We're the Saviors of Journalism, Even Though We Can't/Won't/Don't Edit and Can't Offer Any Proof That Readers Care About What We Do!"

 

[pallister]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

A day in the life of a page designer/"copy editor":

4:30 -- Arrive 15 minutes late. After all, there isn't any copy ready at the start of the shift anyway.

4:45 -- The editors are wasting time in their budget meeting. At least I can read the music reviews on the wire while I wait.

5:05 -- They are finally coming out of the meeting. Guess I should find my pages and start setting them up.

5:20 -- Five stories for the cover again! How am I supposed to lay out a page with that much type?

5:45 -- The ad stacks won't allow me to design the inside pages the way I like. Guess I should wander over to the ad department and fight with them for a while. Who cares if that makes our section look unprofessional?

5:55 -- The ad people leave at 5. They have it easy.

6:15 -- Only 1 story so far. These editors sure are slow. I guess I could go in to the Waiting to Be Edited queue and at least find some mug shots. But I'll go to dinner instead.

6:55 -- Cut my dinner break short to see if any of these stories have been edited. But they haven't. Oh well, still some music reviews to read.

7:15 -- Now the copy is starting to move over. But it's all for the inside pages. How am I supposed to spend time planning my SND-award-winning cover?

7:50 -- The photog came back with an excellent vertical action shot. It's perfect for me to turn into a cutout.

8:20 -- Asshole photogs! They came by and told me they didn't want a cutout. No one at this newspaper understands true art.

8:55 -- The night editor is hassling me for inside pages to proof so they can be sent. What a ****.

9:10-9:25 -- Now the lead story is 2.5 inches longer than it was listed. I'm going to the mat on this one!

9:50 -- They still want more pages to proof. I'm not a factory, you know.

10:20 -- Hmm, I'm running a little behind. Guess I'll just skim the first paragraph or so and write the headline off it.

11:25 -- Too much text to jump. These editors need to do a better job.

11:55 -- Deadline is 10 minutes away. I guess I should finish touching up my award-winning cover so the last 5 pages can be proofed. I hope the proofreader can fix those headlines I couldn't write.

12:05 -- I'm STILL fixing headline type! Why can't they give us suggested heds?

12:25 -- Time to spend the rest of my shift on the cutout for that advance page.

2:00 -- It's a fine-loooking cutout. I guess the day shift can work on the rest of these pages tomorrow.

Next day -- 4:15 -- They have to run a clarification on one of the headlines. I guess they should have spent more time making that story more clear. I couldn't understand it. But these music reviews flow well!

I'm trying the quote button for the first time. Hope it works.

Anyway, the last thing I want to do is get caught up in what has to be one of the most consistently entertaining (although rarely helpful) threads on here, but DP's breakdown of a designer's shift is hilarious. And before I get yelled at, I am a designer (who also has edited more copy than I care to remember), and while DP's description is not the norm, everyone on this board who's been in the business for any length of time knows someone to whom most, if not all, of that applies.

Again, hilarious.

 

[shotglass]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Generally, pallister, I know hilarious.

That's not hilarious. It's mean-spirited, is all.

 

[pallister]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Separating it from the acrimony between DP and everyone else that led to the posting in question, that's hilarious. Although from reading all the posts here, I'm sure that's not too easy for you or any of the other targets. Just an outside observation. As I said, I'm trying not to get sucked in here. I'm sure most of the designers on this thread take pride in their work and don't llike someone shooting it down at every turn.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Generally, pallister, I know hilarious.

That's not hilarious. It's mean-spirited, is all.

Just be glad I was kind. I left out a TON of stuff and let the designer be only 15 minutes late.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Actually, Pallister, there have been lots of very helpful stretches on this thread. Skirmishes like this eventually break out. Just ride it out.

 

[shotglass]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Yes, don't mind us defending newspaper designers. Good sense will break out here any time now.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Mind you, designs can be critiqued, and design's relationship to news judgment is fair game. The skirmishes break out over the integrity of design and designers as a key part of the operation being denigrated at times

 

[Songbird]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

I still wish DP would find one page, ONE PAGE, that he actually likes and post it. He seems to know so much about page designers. My guess is he was angling for a job that a design guy got over him, and now he wanders journalism boards posting rants about how deluded designers are.

And DP, it's easy to say, hey, I deny that this is real, so you can't use it. Studies have been done, my friend, that show that design does matter to readers. Newspapers have paid for them. Schools have paid for them. Poynter and other groups have paid for them. They brought in real people and asked them real questions. Did nifty eye-track stuff. It's easy for you to say, well, that goes against what I believe so I refuse to agree with it. But it's easy for all of us to say you're a blowhard who talks a lot of talk, but when given a simple challenge to produce apage he likes, backs down like a coward.

I wouldn't be talking about studies or cowardice when someone is claiming 95 percent of people look at a page just for design, especially when one source for that information has yet to be produced.

How many readers out of 100 would you say are intrigued by that design? Stop with the "one source of information ****." I'm not writing a story where you need sources on both sides. This is a conversation about opinion. So, out of 100 readers in that area, how many would you say, at FIRST GLANCE, are going to begin to read that story first, even if it's just the first 3-4 graphs?

 

[VJ]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

The funny thing is that if DyePack was actually successful in his career then it might be different. But since he's stuck at some podunk daily paper, you can feel free to take his opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

The funny thing is that if DyePack was actually successful in his career then it might be different. But since he's stuck at some podunk daily paper, you can feel free to take his opinions with a grain of salt.

Spoken like a true asshole who can't take the heat.

We still have 0 out of 95 people cited, probably because this whole thing is a lie concocted by designers who know they have to rely on complete bull**** to make their points.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the "proof" because there isn't any. And everyone knows it.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

I still wish DP would find one page, ONE PAGE, that he actually likes and post it. He seems to know so much about page designers. My guess is he was angling for a job that a design guy got over him, and now he wanders journalism boards posting rants about how deluded designers are.

And DP, it's easy to say, hey, I deny that this is real, so you can't use it. Studies have been done, my friend, that show that design does matter to readers. Newspapers have paid for them. Schools have paid for them. Poynter and other groups have paid for them. They brought in real people and asked them real questions. Did nifty eye-track stuff. It's easy for you to say, well, that goes against what I believe so I refuse to agree with it. But it's easy for all of us to say you're a blowhard who talks a lot of talk, but when given a simple challenge to produce apage he likes, backs down like a coward.

I wouldn't be talking about studies or cowardice when someone is claiming 95 percent of people look at a page just for design, especially when one source for that information has yet to be produced.

How many readers out of 100 would you say are intrigued by that design? Stop with the "one source of information ****." I'm not writing a story where you need sources on both sides. This is a conversation about opinion. So, out of 100 readers in that area, how many would you say, at FIRST GLANCE, are going to begin to read that story first, even if it's just the first 3-4 graphs?

I'm not the one making a completely ridiculous bull**** claim, though. You are.

I guess facts like these are easily forgotten by the people who don't have to concern themselves with facts, only visuals. My bad.

 

[Songbird]

Re: Design thread *Updated 3/25*

Dude, what is the rub here? Why are you so consumed with murderous rage?

And why won't you show us a page you've designed?