Design thread

[Precious Roy]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

Does anybody's section out there have a rail that is on the front page every day? What are some tips to better use the space to our advantage?

 

[tx_spts]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

On our rail, we typically run a local scoreboard the night of games, schedule, sometimes a tease to an inside story and a couple local briefs - nothing new to anyone on this board I'm sure.

 

[JRoyal]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

If you have a big enough section, you should use your rail to teast what's inside. Of course, we don't have a rail and we end up referring to almost everything inside on some days.

If you're smaller, use it as a quick glance where readers can get what they need and go. Make it a rail for casual readers. Give local scores (with refers to related stories maybe), maybe even national scores. Throw on a couple or three good little briefs. Try to make one quirky if you can, something that readers will talk about that might not normally get in. Maybe have a schedule of local games that are being played that day. Heck, even throw in a little quick-hit from a columnist maybe. the Day's Take or whatever. Whatever you put there, make it something readers will want to look for, not just a rail to have a rail.

 

[Precious Roy]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

Our rail is a sealed thing... It is the same every day. We have a local playmaker, a quoteable, a look at what is coming the next day, a listing of TV that night and AP Sportlight. It is something I have to deal with, it's not going to change, it's part of the style guide.

Along the lines of a style guide, does everyone have one? My paper now does, but my last stop didn't. Is it a staple of larger papers? I understand the size difference of the paper I was with and the paper I am at now, but the freedom issue is a bit suffocating at times.

 

[JRoyal]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

Bigger papers will have style guides, but as long as you stay within certain bounds, I've found you can get away with fudging things some. Especially if what you turn out is good. Sure, there are purists at every paper, people who say, "This is our style, and never shall we diverge from it." I drive those people crazy sometimes. But 9 times out of 10, what I do looks good, so the people higher up like it.

What are the issues that you find so suffocating about your paper's style guide?

 

[Precious Roy]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

The biggest thing is that we can't do anything with pictures, headlines etc unless it's a feature. And by the rules laid down, things like signing stories are not features. In my opinion, if it's not a gamer, it's likely a feature.
I got in some real hot water with my Super Bowl stuff because it was flashy (looking back it was quite overdone).
I also hate the fact that I can't do any treatment on a headline. The best feedback from the community came from two covers, one that had grass in the headline and another with fire. That has since been nixed along with color and drop shadowed headlines.
I'm also not allowed to put any kind of screen behind the text. No reverse type, no nothing.
I guess I just have to deal with it and make the best of the situation.

Have to kick in about the World though, they are the best-looking paper in the state, hands down. They are never afraid to try something new.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

I also hate the fact that I can't do any treatment on a headline. The best feedback from the community came from two covers, one that had grass in the headline and another with fire. That has since been nixed along with color and drop shadowed headlines.
I'm also not allowed to put any kind of screen behind the text. No reverse type, no nothing.
I guess I just have to deal with it and make the best of the situation.

Your paper sounds like it has its **** together.

 

[JRoyal]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/6*

The biggest thing is that we can't do anything with pictures, headlines etc unless it's a feature. And by the rules laid down, things like signing stories are not features. In my opinion, if it's not a gamer, it's likely a feature.
I got in some real hot water with my Super Bowl stuff because it was flashy (looking back it was quite overdone).
I also hate the fact that I can't do any treatment on a headline. The best feedback from the community came from two covers, one that had grass in the headline and another with fire. That has since been nixed along with color and drop shadowed headlines.
I'm also not allowed to put any kind of screen behind the text. No reverse type, no nothing.
I guess I just have to deal with it and make the best of the situation.

Have to kick in about the World though, they are the best-looking paper in the state, hands down. They are never afraid to try something new.

A lot of papers are pretty tight on their rules unless they know the designers can pull stuff off. I get away with a lot at the World because I can do it well. And sometimes I screw up and they tell me to never, ever do it again. Some stuff I try is downright magaziney. I personally think color's making a comeback in design, in headlines, screens, etc. I've been using it some myself. Not too much. Just when I want to emphasize something or it looks really good. (Did it the other day on a Cowboy Bill Watts story and it turned out awesome.)

And a lot of papers are nutzo about reverse-type and screens because it makes the presses cry. If you don't do it right, it can be a disaster. It's worked both ways for me.

A lot of these rules are made for a reason, though. The paper wants a certain look. Thus, you have to learn to live within those parameters and see how far you can stretch them. We use just a few fonts for headlines here (Minion Display, Semibold and Compact, and Franklin Gothic Condensed and Extra Condensed). You just learn to use them in different ways. I've earned the ability to stretch things here because I've done some good stuff, and every now and then I could probably get away with breaking the rules. Of course, it helps that the people above me like good design.

And thanks for the compliment. I think the World's got a good look to it, too. That's one of the reasons I came here.

 

[carrie]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

The San Jose Mercury News has been doing daily wraps for the Olympic coverage.

This is one of my favorites:

Thoughts?

 

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Pretty nice. The bottom things have too much type, however.

 

[LukeKnox]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Carrie, glad you brought those up.

As much as I tired of these Olympic Games, I could look at the Oly sections from the Merc, Plain Dealer and Boston Globe (to name just a few)every day. Some great stuff being done. And SJ was consistently clean, smart and kept it simple. FWIW, I don't think it's too much type at the bottom; those look like mostly standing items and not inside refers, so it seems an appropriate amount of space to tell a quick-hit story.

I liked a lot of their covers, and I'll add my favorite here as well.

 

[carrie]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Maybe it's just because I saw it a ton during my recent time in Syracuse, but don't those stories at the bottom look like the stories that run on the cover of the redesigned Guardian?

Again, it could just be me.

 

[spnited]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

I like the Jacobellis/hockey page better than the Coehn page but have a couple pronlems with both.

The type wrap under the photo at the top of the page just drives me crazy

The left rail on the Cohen page has way too much going on....why do you need 2 drop heds, that stupid square pic, and two cutouts yet only about an inch-and-a-half of type?

I like the bottom highlights/reefer package just fine

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

The left rail on the Cohen page has way too much going on....why do you need 2 drop heds, that stupid square pic, and two cutouts yet only about an inch-and-a-half of type?

I agree with the man.

 

[tball]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Thanks, all, for the (mostly) kind words about our Olympics wraps. It's been an adventure, and today's my 16th straight day designing them, so I'm more than a bit rummy at this point, but I'll try to clear up at least one thing... and then get out of the way to allow more discussion on these and other pages.

The left rail on the Cohen page has way too much going on....why do you need 2 drop heds, that stupid square pic, and two cutouts yet only about an inch-and-a-half of type?

I thought we layered this package about as well as we could have while still getting a strong presence for a great photo.

If you'll look closely, each of the dropheds conveys a different bit of the story: The first one expands on the main hed's idea to get more detail on the falls. The second one talks about the winner, who was featured in the lead photo on 1A that day, and also in that "stupid square pic." Since we used a story focused on both Cohen and Arakawa, we thought it important to get Arakawa's face out there, too. The cutouts perhaps didn't work, but they added another bit of information we couldn't get into display type elsewhere: That the two other American skaters finished sixth and seventh.

And, for the record, that's about 4.5 inches of type; only slightly less than the 5 inches we usually shoot for here.

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Thanks, all, for the (mostly) kind words about our Olympics wraps. It's been an adventure, and today's my 16th straight day designing them, so I'm more than a bit rummy at this point, but I'll try to clear up at least one thing... and then get out of the way to allow more discussion on these and other pages.

The left rail on the Cohen page has way too much going on....why do you need 2 drop heds, that stupid square pic, and two cutouts yet only about an inch-and-a-half of type?

I thought we layered this package about as well as we could have while still getting a strong presence for a great photo.

If you'll look closely, each of the dropheds conveys a different bit of the story: The first one expands on the main hed's idea to get more detail on the falls. The second one talks about the winner, who was featured in the lead photo on 1A that day, and also in that "stupid square pic." Since we used a story focused on both Cohen and Arakawa, we thought it important to get Arakawa's face out there, too. The cutouts perhaps didn't work, but they added another bit of information we couldn't get into display type elsewhere: That the two other American skaters finished sixth and seventh.

And, for the record, that's about 4.5 inches of type; only slightly less than the 5 inches we usually shoot for here.

There is no way that is 4.5 inches of type.

 

[spnited]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Good explanation tball but still far too many elements for my taste. US skaters who finised sixth and seveth in cutouts? Who cares.
And those little square pics are another pet peeve of mine. I just don't like them and it's one more "layer" before you get to any copy.
Trying to get everything out there can get distracting.

 

[tball]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

There is no way that is 4.5 inches of type.

You're right: I just opened the page up in CCI and that is, in fact, exactly 4 inches.

 

[habeas_dorkus]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

A very elegant page. To my eye, not too distracting at all, nor too many elements.

 

[FileNotFound]

Re: Design thread *Updated 2/25*

Almost every page can benefit from having one element removed. The cutouts of the also-rans on the Merc page (two pages up) qualify for that treatment.

(Edit: Crap, I hit a page break. I'm talking about the page with the figure skaters. :-\ )