Design thread

[Cadet]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

For this particular page I would go with more photos instead of running the single photo larger, only because it's the Olympics and you're trying to cover so many different sports. If this were a Super Bowl or World Series page, blowing up the single photo would be the answer, but not for Olympic coverage.

 

[SportsDesigner]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

I'm going to agree with Rukan and Cadet on this one.

The Olympics always provide fantastic photos. I'd argue with your SE to allow extra space for the Olympics to jump to another page, which would give you that space for a series of standalone shots - best of the day.
Or try to make your cover Olympics story a no-jumper. It can be done, on some days.
(I'm assuming you have wire copy only).

As Rukan said, the Turin logo doesn't do much for you. The Athens Games offered all sorts of visual cues we could use (Parthenon, Greek logos, etc). Turin, not so much. I'd just make the header say, "Turin Olympics" and maybe use a tiny Olympic flag fluttering in the wind or something.

 

[robschneider]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

I agree with others that you need more from the photo there. There's different rules of thought on this: big and bold (run one as large as possible) or lots of faces. I would almost always go for the former in that case and give the wire photo as good of display as possible. I don't know if that Olympic story is going to be a single story or a roundup (I would guess roundup).

I'm not sure what the agate would be, but it seems like the age of Olympic agate is dead. I think a medalist list with very limited agate would suffice (U.S. and Canada hockey box scores?). Unlike the summer games, there are half the events, so a roundup really can hit all the highlights of each Olympic day.

About the Olympic logo: I think the top of it has some merit with the color scheme and the mountain effect they are going for. What about just cropping the top of the logo into the rule to the height of the "2006 Olympics". At least worth looking at. But there's certainly nothing wrong with not using it: I'm not using it either.

Another thing about the cutout: I agree it's awkward, but it also is going to be something pretty tough to pull off to the same consistency and quality for 18 straight days, not to mention the production concerns.

 

[kbb]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

Does anybody else think the "2006 Olympics" and the main headline are too similar in size, given their proximity?

Or is it just me?

 

[LukeKnox]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

Wanted to post this page from the Santa Fe New Mexican .... couple of things going on with their recent redesign that are interesting:

- Boston Globe- or N&O-style score bugs (which I like)
- all copy is ragged right (on the fence about that, but I think it works)
- centered heds, mostly lighter hed fonts
- simple, black headers over each story besides the column
- slightly different hed treatment approach to the hockey CP

Nothing out of the ordinary in this particular page, but I was curious to get other people's takes on some of these elements and whatever else you might see:

 

[carrie]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

We used to have the same type of scorebugs before we redesigned.

Let's just say I wasn't sad to see them go.
At least in this instance they aren't tied to the summary/hed deck/talkhed/lead-in/whatever you want to call it.

 

[imjustagirl2]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

I've always liked centered heds, and I like this page a lot. There's plenty of space, nothing seems like it's running into anything else, and it looks clean.

I don't know about the all-rag right...but overall I like it a lot.

One minor nitpick: Do not like the long cutline under the Ricky Davis mug. To me, mugs should be just a name, or at best, three lines under it. That's just too much to me.

 

[Cadet]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

A few thoughts on the centering business: on the column and stretch-across headlines, it works; on the subhead within the box "Texas catches..." and on headlines that don't come close to filling the width "Panthers place faith..." it absolutely does not work. People who read English read left to right. If the text box is more than one column wide, I want a headline that starts at the left. I don't like the jump lines centered, because it looks off (and sloppy) if the jump line can't fit the column width. Centering can mean a lack of consistency based on too many variables.

On this particular page, I thought there was too much white space at the top. A solution would be to make the Summit photo larger and gain the space to do so by moving the teaser text to the left of the photo so the hand could stretch further up.

And the widow in the first paragraph of the top story is driving me nuts. Either learn to kearn or change a word or two.

Echoing IJAG, the long cutline under Davis is too much. I'm not against long cutlines, but if it's competing with the copy for attention, find a way to set it apart.

 

[LukeKnox]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

Echoing IJAG, the long cutline under Davis is too much. I'm not against long cutlines, but if it's competing with the copy for attention, find a way to set it apart.

That's a good point; that long mugline could have been made into a breakout box of its own, maybe.

At least in this instance they aren't tied to the summary/hed deck/talkhed/lead-in/whatever you want to call it.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and yeah this seems to be a much cleaner approach to it.

 

[dixiehack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/21*

On this particular page, I thought there was too much white space at the top. A solution would be to make the Summit photo larger and gain the space to do so by moving the teaser text to the left of the photo so the hand could stretch further up.

And the widow in the first paragraph of the top story is driving me nuts. Either learn to kearn or change a word or two.

I'm guessing that house style is that the top index (like everything else) is centered by way of house style. I noticed it because of Summitt pointing skyward, but I'll bet there are a lot of lonely days where that stuff gets missed entirely.

As for the end widow, I've always thought that was one of those things that designers obsess over way more than civilians. The same thinking is why I love rag right copy, 99% of readers don't care, and it's one less thing to worry about each night.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

Another one of these section flags that provide a veritable torrent of white space. White space is our friend, but in this case, it's being a clingy, passive-aggressive buddy. Make the "Sports" word smaller; it can be much smaller and still be assertive. But otherwise, I think it does some good things to let the page breathe.

I like the centered heds. They just look more attractive than having short decks. Newspaper pages are looked at like a picture, not like a book. So I don't think flush left is such a biggie.

I don't know about ragged on stuff that isn't a column. I can picture the day they have to have a story about a coach dying, or about New Mexico U getting the "death penalty", and I can picture me thinking ragged type would not be appropriate for such things.

 

[HejiraHenry]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

If I were King, and not "King," all copy would be ragged right. I just dig it.

Hate, hate, HATE the solid-black score bugs. They might be a little better if they were 60 percent black.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

Some papers have a policy on all ragged-right fronts. I like it. Let the words breathe, especially for a one-column element.

The score bugs are not sharp.

 

[BTExpress]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*


A dinosaur like me just isn't into the whole "white space" menality that seems to have taken hold of today's designers.

Yes, in a front-page centerpiece it can have a nice effect.

But people at my paper these days are creating white space just for the sake of white space. The other day we had a hockey jump with a photo on a usually tight NHL page. The jump was given a generous 2-pica border on each side of the rule (which means it was 3 picas removed from the pieces of type immediately to the left and right.

Because of that, a photo that could have run 22 picas instead runs 20. May not sound like a lot, but that's a 10-percent reduction in a photo that was already a little small to begin with. And for what? What are we gaining by making "design" decisions like this?

 

[DyePack]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

A dinosaur like me just isn't into the whole "white space" menality that seems to have taken hold of today's designers.

Yes, in a front-page centerpiece it can have a nice effect.

But people at my paper these days are creating white space just for the sake of white space. The other day we had a hockey jump with a photo on a usually tight NHL page. The jump was given a generous 2-pica border on each side of the rule (which means it was 3 picas removed from the pieces of type immediately to the left and right.

Because of that, a photo that could have run 22 picas instead runs 20. May not sound like a lot, but that's a 10-percent reduction in a photo that was already a little small to begin with. And for what? What are we gaining by making "design" decisions like this?

"Amen," says the choir.

 

[shotglass]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

I'm not so much for the balanced white space thing as I've come to like extra air between stories, a little extra vertical space. I've seen how that can work well. But only if it separates two disparate subjects; that's the reason I do it.

 

[Cadet]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

I had the occasion to read today's New Mexican, so I was able to see the inside sports pages. The centered subheads and centered mug shot captions are still killing me, but here's what really got me: all the 'notes' sections have the first brief in a serif font and the remaining briefs in a sans-serif font. Same point sizes, within the same copy block. My eyes were in pain.

To balance, I did find the structure of both the sports front and insides to be very solid and easy to navigate. Good use of dominant art and smaller pics.

 

[Precious Roy]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

A question for those that have kids signing letters of intent. Where do you play those? We are going to have two-three big stories on our front page of kids signing to D-I schools and the local D-II college. I've been stirring things around in my head, but part of me just doesn't think this is as big as we are playing it up to be. We're not talking USC or Texas here, just a D-I program. Where does your paper run these stories and how do you treat them?

Thanks in advance

 

[shotglass]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

I had the occasion to read today's New Mexican, so I was able to see the inside sports pages. The centered subheads and centered mug shot captions are still killing me, but here's what really got me: all the 'notes' sections have the first brief in a serif font and the remaining briefs in a sans-serif font. Same point sizes, within the same copy block. My eyes were in pain.

We do that with our roundups, Cadet ... lede in regular body type, drop to sans-serif for later games. Saves a good deal of space, have heard no complaints on readability. Then again, we do leave a line of white space between each straight add, so that might help.

 

[carrie]

Re: Design thread *Updated 1/28*

A question for those that have kids signing letters of intent. Where do you play those? We are going to have two-three big stories on our front page of kids signing to D-I schools and the local D-II college. I've been stirring things around in my head, but part of me just doesn't think this is as big as we are playing it up to be. We're not talking USC or Texas here, just a D-I program. Where does your paper run these stories and how do you treat them?

Thanks in advance

We're doing a live special section, but we also have something like 73 local kids signing with D-I schools.