Defector

[Alma]

The thread to talk about Defector, the new sports and pop culture Web site.

 

[JayFarrar]

*shrug*
I didn't much care for Deadspin, outside of a piece or two here and there.
I also didn't care for how Deadspin ended. On the other hand, when those guys and gals turn on each other, it will be a sight to behold.
I mean your whole ethos is telling the man to **** off, how it is going to work when you are in charge and making decisions?

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Decent album by Steve Hackett. Not in the league of "Voyage of the Acolyte" or "Spectral Mornings," but worth keeping a copy handy ...

 

[Tighthead]

I’m curious about the long term viability of this, but from an internal perspective. I gather that for the first year they are all getting an equal cut.

I’ve seen countless partnership/shareholder agreements, and have seen some dissolutions from a front row seat. Once people start trying to account for everything, it can get difficult.

Will people like Ratto and Magary expect more because they drive traffic? Will page views/downloads become part of the metric for compensation. There is also an issue as to the volume of material provided.

I assume most of these people are also freelancing, so another avenue for resentment is saving your best work for freelance gigs instead of the site.

If the participants see value and stability in the platform, that will be critical to the long term success.

 

[SixToe]

*shrug*
I didn't much care for Deadspin, outside of a piece or two here and there.
I also didn't care for how Deadspin ended. On the other hand, when those guys and gals turn on each other, it will be a sight to behold.
I mean your whole ethos is telling the man to **** off, how it is going to work when you are in charge and making decisions?

They didn't want to be told what to do by The Man.

Now they own it and-or are in charge of it. Therefore, they have become The Man.

Should be fun to watch.

 

[sgreenwell]

This is a delightful story:

https://defector.com/the-secret-history-of-the-internets-funniest-buzzer-beater/

I get their weekly email, and like a lot of what I click. I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a membership though, since I still have a stack of Texas Monthlys to catch up on reading.

 

[Hot and Rickety]

I feel like Deadspin broke more news than Defector has. I also feel like I had more friends/colleagues ask "Hey, did you read that Deadspin story?" than have asked me "Hey, did you read that Defector story?" (the number of people who have asked that latter question is approximately zero). A lot of the Defector content I've seen tweeted out/retweeted seems to be really, really frivolous, at least when looking at the heds.

Maybe it's working, who knows? But I feel like it probably exhausted its main subscriber base -- which I'm guessing was mainly hardcore Deadspin commenters -- pretty quickly. How does it grow from there?

 

[maumann]

This is a delightful story:

https://defector.com/the-secret-history-of-the-internets-funniest-buzzer-beater/

I get their weekly email, and like a lot of what I click. I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a membership though, since I still have a stack of Texas Monthlys to catch up on reading.

The fact that he found the gym, the game, the player and the kid is some outstanding detective work.

But nobody gives a damn about all the dead ends he hit along the way. That's 99.9 percent of any investigative piece, to be honest. It's still a good long-form story without the rat's maze description that had me nearly ready to click away. Who cares what format the video was originally in, what episode of AFV he found and how long it took to email people?

The story is the people involved, not the process. There were a lot of "watch me making sausage" paragraphs when all I wanted to do was eat the hot dog.

A good editor would have compressed that part of the timeline so the reader doesn't have to TL;DR.

 

[sgreenwell]

The fact that he found the gym, the game, the player and the kid is some outstanding detective work.

But nobody gives a damn about all the dead ends he hit along the way. That's 99.9 percent of any investigative piece, to be honest. It's still a good long-form story without the rat's maze description that had me nearly ready to click away. Who cares what format the video was originally in, what episode of AFV he found and how long it took to email people?

The story is the people involved, not the process. There were a lot of "watch me making sausage" paragraphs when all I wanted to do was eat the hot dog.

A good editor would have compressed that part of the timeline so the reader doesn't have to TL;DR.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but for better or worse, that's kind of Deadspin / Defector "style." The shaggy dog investigation is always part of the story. In this one, it didn't really bother me, but it definitely does in others.

 

[tapintoamerica]

The fact that he found the gym, the game, the player and the kid is some outstanding detective work.

But nobody gives a damn about all the dead ends he hit along the way. That's 99.9 percent of any investigative piece, to be honest. It's still a good long-form story without the rat's maze description that had me nearly ready to click away. Who cares what format the video was originally in, what episode of AFV he found and how long it took to email people?

The story is the people involved, not the process. There were a lot of "watch me making sausage" paragraphs when all I wanted to do was eat the hot dog.

A good editor would have compressed that part of the timeline so the reader doesn't have to TL;DR.

Many Podcasts have the same affliction. Listen to me knock on the door. Listen to the door get slammed in my face. Look at me. I’m a courageous journalist.
Spare me. It ain’t about you.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

That this is the 11th post on a thread started two years ago Friday is a pretty good indicator of the buzz Defector is getting. It seems like I can read most stories I want there (I can't remember the last time I didn't get to read a full story simply by clicking on the X in the upper left corner telling me I have to subscribe) and most of them are OK and some are even very good. But it's not Deadspin (and of course Deadspin isn't Deadspin). That time has come and gone, which is fine. I am curious how they're faring with the business model, though.

 

[Sports Barf]

Good stuff every now and then but not enough there for me to ever possibly justify the $8 a month or whatever. Drew Magary’s “Why Your Team Sucks” series kinda lost its fastball over the years too

 

[SixToe]

Many Podcasts have the same affliction. Listen to me knock on the door. Listen to the door get slammed in my face. Look at me. I’m a courageous journalist.
Spare me. It ain’t about you.

True. But too many places today don't have editors with spines who will say this, or enforce it. Or take it out of stories to tighten and make the story better.

I read things and wonder how the hell an editor let it go through. I don't want to be Old Clouds Guy but damn, if you're going to invest in significant websites, podcasts or print products at least invest in editors and copy-editors with backbones.

 

[maumann]

True. But too many places today don't have editors with spines who will say this, or enforce it. Or take it out of stories to tighten and make the story better.

I read things and wonder how the hell an editor let it go through. I don't want to be Old Clouds Guy but damn, if you're going to invest in significant websites, podcasts or print products at least invest in editors and copy-editors with backbones.

I guess I am That Guy, too. I understand the Internet is a "limitless canvas," but that's still no reason to use it in a way that detracts from the message you're trying to present. Whether it's Homer or Chaucer or Shakespeare or the weekly rag down the street, one thing about writing has not changed: Advance the narrative.

If Deadspin and Defector and Podcasts are making money (i.e., increasing audience/advertising revenue) with this recipe, I'm in no position to tell them how to bake their chocolate chip cookies. People will choose their favorites. But not everybody wants to wait until the cookies are cold and hard before they're served, as was almost the case with this particular piece.

As an editor, it was my ass if I didn't suggest (demand?) constructive criticism to improve things that made for compelling/cohesive/reader-friendly content that advances the narrative.

And that encompasses a wide range of styles and voices. There were stories so good I just corrected verb tenses or a misspelled word and away they went. Others were laborious pieces of junk that required sledgehammer editing to see the light of day.

If that Defector story was presented to me at that time (or even posted in the Writer's Workshop), those are the corrections/suggestions I'd make. The story is great but the part that makes it great is buried under 1,500 other words that don't advance the narrative.

You've got a famous sports blooper meme, and obviously you solved the mystery, or you wouldn't be writing about it. Unless you're Agatha Christie, I'm scrolling to the bottom for the whodunit.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Good stuff every now and then but not enough there for me to ever possibly justify the $8 a month or whatever. Drew Magary’s “Why Your Team Sucks” series kinda lost its fastball over the years too

He's still funny, but the pieces are overly long and he just throws **** **** DAMN in there out of habit.

 

[Alma]

Defector would only hire editors with a sharp sense of progressive moral clarity, and the writers - who make the money for the site - likely have zero interest in introducing that factor to the process.

 

[dixiehack]

The thread to talk about Defector, the new sports and pop culture Web site.

Defector would only hire editors with a sharp sense of progressive moral clarity, and the writers - who make the money for the site - likely have zero interest in introducing that factor to the process.

Two years from setup to punchline. That’s dedication to a bit.

 

[Songbird]

Two years from setup to punchline. That’s dedication to a bit.

Teller waited 30 years for his punchline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Soames

 

[Alma]

Two years from setup to punchline. That’s dedication to a bit.

Uh huh. Because I'm the one who revived the thread on Tuesday.

 

[MeanGreenATO]

Deadspin really thrived with smart aggregations and some good longform stuff and obviously the Mant’i Teo piece that was amazing.

But it’s 2022 and there isn’t a lot of money in aggregating and longform is dead.