Corporal punishment

[copperpot]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

 

[king cranium maximus IV]

Was rambunctious as a boy. Parents never once hit me. Grew up, went to college, got a job, got married. Won't be hitting my kids either.

 

[RickStain]

I'm a parent, I was spanked, I don't spank.

I don't think it's going to damage the kid if I do or anything, I just don't think it's particularly effective either. By the time they are old enough to make the connection between actions and consequences, they are old enough to understand other forms of punishment.

My parents slap my son (19 months) on the hand if he doesn't get it after a few nos. I don't love it, but I don't make a stink about it either.

 

[outofplace]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

 

[MartinonMTV2]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

Didn't take long to prove my point.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

My kids are always warned before they're spanked.

"Don't do that."
"I said don't do that."
"If you do that again, you're going to get a spanking."

That usually stops it. Sometimes it doesn't and you give them a little swat. It's never hard and if they're upset by it, it's because they're being told no and not because you did it hard.

We have neighbors who wouldn't spank their kids if their lives depended on it and they have the worst behaved kids I've ever seen.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

Didn't take long to prove my point.

I'm not against discipline. I've seen how kids without any discipline turn out. I'm not against stern discipline, either. Trust me, I'm not "that parent" who thinks their child can do no wrong and should never get a talking-to or a repurcussion for bad behavior.

What I do think is that emotion should be, to the extent it can be, removed from the exchange. We don't hit each other in our house and we don't yell at each other. I look at it like a boss-employee or teacher-student dynamic. When I was in middle school and high school, I remember being terrified of my French teacher, who never raised her voice or had an emotional reaction to anything we ever did. At the same time, you could hear a pin drop in her class. I respected the hell out of her.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

Someone very, very close to me was abused as a child. To compare spanking and yelling to actual abuse is fairly ridiculous and trivializes the issue. Real abuse leaves a person deeply scarred for their entire lives. Yelling at or spanking your kids as a form of discipline does not.

I think we're all probably more in agreement than we think. A lot of this seems like it's just turning on different people's interpretations of words like "yelling" and "spanking."

 

[Azrael]

http://bible.cc/proverbs/13-24.htm

It must work, our species has never been more obedient or peace-loving.

 

[outofplace]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

Didn't take long to prove my point.

I'm not against discipline. I've seen how kids without any discipline turn out. I'm not against stern discipline, either. Trust me, I'm not "that parent" who thinks their child can do no wrong and should never get a talking-to or a repurcussion for bad behavior.

What I do think is that emotion should be, to the extent it can be, removed from the exchange. We don't hit each other in our house and we don't yell at each other. I look at it like a boss-employee or teacher-student dynamic. When I was in middle school and high school, I remember being terrified of my French teacher, who never raised her voice or had an emotional reaction to anything we ever did. At the same time, you could hear a pin drop in her class. I respected the hell out of her.

First of all, class is a different thing from parenting. It is a much smaller amount of time, a different environment and a different relationship. People need to understand that. It's one of the reasons I'm against corporal punishment in school.

Secondly, who said the yelling has to be an emotional reaction? That is the point you're not getting with a spank, either. It shouldn't be an angry reaction. It should be a calculated decision. It is a tool, not an emotional response.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't get the notion that corporal punishment is OK when it's not done out of anger. Why else would you be doing it? Obviously the kid did something to make you mad. You're not hitting him or her because you're happy.

I have two little girls, and the thought of anyone hitting them, no matter what their misdeeds, is making me feel sick.

And it should. Hitting them because you are angry would be abuse.

But a spank can be disciplinary tool as well, but it has to be a decision. And no, the kid probably won't know the difference. But you will.

The fear thing is a slippery slope. What about yelling? You think a little kid isn't going to be scared if a much larger parent stands over them and yells?

Yes. It is called "emotional abuse."

Didn't take long to prove my point.

I'm not against discipline. I've seen how kids without any discipline turn out. I'm not against stern discipline, either. Trust me, I'm not "that parent" who thinks their child can do no wrong and should never get a talking-to or a repurcussion for bad behavior.

What I do think is that emotion should be, to the extent it can be, removed from the exchange. We don't hit each other in our house and we don't yell at each other. I look at it like a boss-employee or teacher-student dynamic. When I was in middle school and high school, I remember being terrified of my French teacher, who never raised her voice or had an emotional reaction to anything we ever did. At the same time, you could hear a pin drop in her class. I respected the hell out of her.

First of all, class is a different thing from parenting. It is a much smaller amount of time, a different environment and a different relationship. People need to understand that. It's one of the reasons I'm against corporal punishment in school.

Secondly, who said the yelling has to be an emotional reaction? That is the point you're not getting with a spank, either. It shouldn't be an angry reaction. It should be a calculated decision. It is a tool, not an emotional response.

I'm getting the point. I agree that there is a distinction between "yelling" to get a point across ("No touch!") and "yelling" because you lost control ("You dumb ****ing kid! You're worthless! I wish I never had you!")

 

[MacDaddy]

Teachers and administrators who have to resort to corporal punishment do so because they don't know what they're doing.

Ridiculous.

How so?

 

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Personally, I like the way my high school did it back when it was an all-boys school - several years before I attended btw.

If you got caught fighting on school property the punishment was stepping into the school boxing ring (yes, boxing ring) and going three rounds with one of the priests who happened to be a former Golden Gloves boxer.

They didn't have many fights at school back then.

Of course, the only potential flaw is, what if the student gets in a lucky punch and knocks out the priest?

You might have kids falling all over each other fighting in order to get a crack at one of the priests. :D

And, as I believe you pointed out, the priests eventually get too old to box.

 

[suburbia]

I'd be uncomfortable with the idea of a school teacher, administrator or anyone other than me doling out corporal punishment. Give the kid detention, make the parent leave work early to come get him/her at school and let the parent handle it from there. I don't know if I'd be willing even to do it myself. But I wouldn't want someone else doing it.

But if we're going to allow corporal punishment, there need to be very clear guidelines (both within the school/institution and codified into law) for when it is to be used and how. Otherwise, we could get kids in some jurisdictions getting a couple of relatively light whacks with a paddle and kids somewhere else getting hit with canes, as they do in Singapore.

 

[ucacm]

When I was in elementary school, there was an assistant principal at our high school that was legendary for the wrath he would unleash with each paddling he gave. He was, in general, a really nice guy that everyone seemed to like, and fear, at the same time.

There were huge football players that would get paddled by him and admit it hurt so hard they would cry. Not the type of cry where you are sobbing, but the type of cry where it hurt so bad a few tears of pain roll down your cheeks.

I never got paddled in school, and I can't even remember getting detention (maybe once or twice in middle school for being tardy), but I don't see what the big deal is with corporal punishment. I think you should have guidelines in place, and only administrators should have the ability to paddle, but it's just not a big deal to me. If you want, give the parents the ability to have a written opt-out for their child.

My dad was a middle school principal and gave kids the option of getting paddled or going to detention for X number of days. Almost universally, the kids would choose to be paddled.

 

[Dick Whitman]

What seems to not make sense to me is that (with one gigantic exception) we don't have corporal punishment as an aspect of our criminal justice system. Either we don't think it works or we think that it is inappropriate.

Why is this different? Do adults have a greater claim to dignity than minors? But that could cut the other way, too - minors are vulnerable members of society who need more protection.

Thoughts on an apparent inconsistency?

 

[outofplace]

What seems to not make sense to me is that (with one gigantic exception) we don't have corporal punishment as an aspect of our criminal justice system. Either we don't think it works or we think that it is inappropriate.

Why is this different? Do adults have a greater claim to dignity than minors? But that could cut the other way, too - minors are vulnerable members of society who need more protection.

Thoughts on an apparent inconsistency?

You really think discipline for a child is the same thing as discipline for an adult? Seriously?

 

[Dick Whitman]

What seems to not make sense to me is that (with one gigantic exception) we don't have corporal punishment as an aspect of our criminal justice system. Either we don't think it works or we think that it is inappropriate.

Why is this different? Do adults have a greater claim to dignity than minors? But that could cut the other way, too - minors are vulnerable members of society who need more protection.

Thoughts on an apparent inconsistency?

You really think discipline for a child is the same thing as discipline for an adult? Seriously?

Why don't you just answer the ****ing question for once in your life instead of starting a personal pissing match?

So tired of your bull****.

 

[Blitz]

Teachers and administrators who have to resort to corporal punishment do so because they don't know what they're doing.

Ridiculous.

How so?

It's just too broad of a statement.