Corporal punishment

[Dick Whitman]

I was shocked to find out in this story today that corporal punishment is active in 20 states:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/28/education/30paddle.html?_r=1&hp

I recall being in elementary school and seeing kids come back crying from getting paddled. I don't know whether it was because of the physical pain inflicted or the emotional humiliation. Or a little of both. Following the NYT link, I see that the state I grew up in remains one of two that permits broad use of corporal punishment. That's embarrassing, although I'm not sure how many school systems actually use it any more. Could be mostly a dead letter. There's also a list on the linked site of countries that don't permit corporal punishment in schools, many of them third-world or Middle Eastern (in fairness to the U.S., I'm not sure our federal government has the constitutional authority to take this on). Some nations, including our president's native Kenya, have banned corporal punishment in the home, as well.

I can't imagine how I would feel if some other person laid a finger on my child. There's an anecdote in the piece about a student who passed out from the pain and broke his jaw falling down. I'd want to kill somebody, honestly.

I remember taking the occasional beating from my father growing up, and it was pretty traumatic. It did nothing positive for me, particularly since he mostly did it in anger, not in any controlled fashion. It was chaos when the belt came off, and I still cringe at the memory - not just about the physical pain, but how out of control everything became during those terrifying moments.

I will never lay a finger on my children with the intention of causing pain. So help any one else who does.

I suspect others here may disagree, and I'd be interested to hear their thoughts (school and home corporal punishment).

 

[The Big Ragu]

Just pointing out that our president is a native of the United States, not Kenya.

And corporal punishment is reprehensible, particularly when done to children. It is abuse.

 

[Ace]

One problem with corporal punishment is that often is done in anger. So instead of punishing your kid, you are taking out your anger on him/her.

I was in a shop class in high school that every guy had to take for one semester. It was 4 months of sitting at your desk and parading to the front to be paddled for making a peep.

I assume that after they got rid of all the kids who didn't really want to be in shop they went on to making bedposts or paddles for next year or something.

Only thing I learned from that is that school systems were full of dumb decisions and some teachers were complete assholes.

 

[Smash Williams]

See, I don't mind corporal punishment when applied in a very limited, very controlled fashion. I got spanked exactly once as a kid, and it made a huge impact - I was probably six and had run across a busy street without looking in front of moving traffic. It was only 2-3 swats with a hand on my butt, but it got it through my little head that I should never, ever do that again. It more scared me than it physically hurt, but that's what left the lasting impression.

Would I spank my kid? Probably not, but I can see its uses for egregious discipline issues when the parents is doing it in a responsible, controlled manner. I wouldn't think a school would be a setting for it because it would be a very personal parental decision, though.

 

[Justin Biebler]

Got the paddle in kindergarten no less for putting a large box of crayons on a radiator and melting them. I knew better and probably deserved it. I was marched up to Mr. Latta's office where I got two cracks. Amazing, I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I clearly remember that. I guess I was none the worse for wear, but that was the mid-1970s, a different time. I wouldn't want a school official paddling my daughter. If there's a problem at school, I'd rather my wife and I handle it.

 

[MileHigh]

Never got swats, as they were called. But one girl got them out in the hallway once and another time in front of the class as a "message." That was sixth grade.

And, yes, it's abuse. Pure and simple.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Got the paddle in kindergarten no less for putting a large box of crayons on a radiator and melting them. I knew better and probably deserved it. I was marched up to Mr. Latta's office where I got two cracks. Amazing, I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I clearly remember that. I guess I was none the worse for wear, but that was the mid-1970s, a different time. I wouldn't want a school official paddling my daughter. If there's a problem at school, I'd rather my wife and I handle it.

I don't mind the school disciplining my child. Detention. Saturday school. Stern talking-to. But I don't want them hitting him/her. Huge, huge difference.

It really surprises me, now having children of my own, how commonplace it was just a generation ago for parents (and schools) to beat the crap out of children. They're so immature and innocent. I just don't know how someone could look a child in the eye and then in good conscience inflict physical pain, considering the power structure in place. I can't fathom it.

As I understand it, from what I've picked up here and there, my grandfather absolutely beat the living **** out of my dad and his siblings. It didn't stop at adolescence, either. When my dad wanted to go to college instead of enter the workforce, my grandfather kicked him in the jewels as a sendoff, from what I understand through hints and allegations. Unbelievable. Harrowing. But then he belted us, too (but surely not 1/100th of what he endured, but certainly out of anger).

I'm of the opinion that you actually cede power when you lose control of your emotions, whether the relationship is parent/child, teacher/child, employer/employee, etc., etc.

 

[Blitz]

It worked fine for over 100 years, then we got rid of it because some parents were (apparently) okay with letting their kids act out in school and disrupt the teaching session.

Corporal punishment is fine, so that kids who act out can be sent to the assistant principal for a paddling.
It's behavior modification and it works.

As a teacher, I sure wish we could get it back in place. The kids have no repercussions as it is now, when they misbehave or act out.

A lot of this Ritalin and other junk that's being prescribed would not be necessary if the kids were to endure a paddling or two.
This discipline issue, BTW, is just one of the ways that education has been dumbed-down in the USA.

Kids and lots of adults need more tough consequences in their lives. Things would shape up in a hurry.

My girl starts kindergarten this fall and I'm fine with the school disciplining her if she acts out. I'll do it again when she gets home.

 

[User 11148]

That's the ticket. If we could just go back to beating our kids, think how much more competitive our economy would be!

 

[Mystery Meat II]

Have you ever tried just turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

 

[Ace]

It worked fine for over 100 years, then we got rid of it because some parents were (apparently) okay with letting their kids act out in school and disrupt the teaching session.

Corporal punishment is fine, so that kids who act out can be sent to the assistant principal for a paddling.
It's behavior modification and it works.

As a teacher, I sure wish we could get it back in place. The kids have no repercussions as it is now, when they misbehave or act out.

A lot of this Ritalin and other junk that's being prescribed would not be necessary if the kids were to endure a paddling or two.
This discipline issue, BTW, is just one of the ways that education has been dumbed-down in the USA.

Kids and lots of adults need more tough consequences in their lives. Things would shape up in a hurry.

My girl starts kindergarten this fall and I'm fine with the school disciplining her if she acts out. I'll do it again when she gets home.

Your fine with the teacher or assistant principal paddling your kindergarten daughter? OK.

And saying hitting a kid is behavior modification is a bit of a stretch. Why isn't detention or expulsion or clapping erasers or hauling mom and dad for a conference behavior modification?

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Paddlers > passive-aggressive birthers.

 

[Yodel]

If corporal punishment is done in anger, then it is wrong. But it is right and proper when done correctly.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Personally, I like the way my high school did it back when it was an all-boys school - several years before I attended btw.

If you got caught fighting on school property the punishment was stepping into the school boxing ring (yes, boxing ring) and going three rounds with one of the priests who happened to be a former Golden Gloves boxer.

They didn't have many fights at school back then.

 

[outofplace]

If corporal punishment is done in anger, then it is wrong. But it is right and proper when done correctly.

That is the key distinction, one that seems to escape the mental grasp of people on both sides of this issue.

If anybody hits a kid in anger, even a parent, it is abuse. Period. That said, it can also be a useful and sometimes necessary disciplinary tool when used correctly.

If nothing else, there are times that a very small child needs that type of correction if they are engaging in dangerous behavior. I'm talking about children who are old enough to do something dangerous, but young enough that verbal communication is a problem for them.

Does corporal punishment belong in schools, though? No, I don't think so. I certainly wouldn't send my daughter to a school that allowed it. But she's at an age where I think it should stop altogether, anyway.

 

[MartinonMTV2]

It worked fine for over 100 years, then we got rid of it because some parents were (apparently) okay with letting their kids act out in school and disrupt the teaching session.

Corporal punishment is fine, so that kids who act out can be sent to the assistant principal for a paddling.
It's behavior modification and it works.

As a teacher, I sure wish we could get it back in place. The kids have no repercussions as it is now, when they misbehave or act out.

A lot of this Ritalin and other junk that's being prescribed would not be necessary if the kids were to endure a paddling or two.
This discipline issue, BTW, is just one of the ways that education has been dumbed-down in the USA.

Kids and lots of adults need more tough consequences in their lives. Things would shape up in a hurry.

My girl starts kindergarten this fall and I'm fine with the school disciplining her if she acts out. I'll do it again when she gets home.

What? No repercussions? There are plenty without corporal punishment.

Unfortunately, the result of them would be much the same -- parents coming in to ***** because their kids were singled out and disciplined.

So I guess I might agree with some of what you say. I also should add that when I first came to this board, there were 2-4 topics where people seemed to be against rules or standards. So I guess people want what you want -- except when they want to tell the boss to **** off or when they are against an honor code that prohibits premarital sex.

 

[Blitz]

If corporal punishment is done in anger, then it is wrong. But it is right and proper when done correctly.

That's just it. It's not the teacher that administers it. It's someone in the front office. That's just part of the job description for the administrators. So it's not the teacher who is "acting in anger" .... the paddling, if you old folks might remember, didn't but about one percent of the time happen in kindergarten. It's more of a elementary/middle/high school thing.
Yes, I am fine with school officials, trained and educated to be "educators", redirecting my kid's bad behavior. A good idea would be to let behavior happen a few times with parent's being contacted and briefed on what the kid is doing.
That gives a chance to try and handle it at home.
But they would understand that eventually it was going to lead to corporal punishment.
Yes, I'm fine with that.
Some of these posts paint with such a broad brush.
"go back top beating our kids and we'll see a better economy" ???
Please ....

"Give kids stern consequences for disrupting the classroom process" ...that's what I'm saying.

Bet most of them won't keep doing it.

 

[Ace]

I don't think paddling is a stern punishment. So what it hurts for a minute.

Now make a kid who normally rides the bus stay after school so that a parent has to leave work and come get him at 3:30, that's a punishment with repercussions.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Personally, I like the way my high school did it back when it was an all-boys school - several years before I attended btw.

If you got caught fighting on school property the punishment was stepping into the school boxing ring (yes, boxing ring) and going three rounds with one of the priests who happened to be a former Golden Gloves boxer.

They didn't have many fights at school back then.

Did you go to school in a Robert Cormier book?

 

[User 11148]

Blitz, I suspect I'm a good older than you, so my memories of corporal punishment are that it happened a lot more frequently than the occasional trip to the principal’s office. I recall being terrified that I'd get Mrs. X in the third grade, because when I was in the second grade I’d see her walking up and down the lunch table pulling kids out for a paddling right there for the offense of not cleaning their plates. I recall plenty of occasions when paddlings were administered in the front of the classroom for the offense of not having homework done. Heck, I saw a kid get a paddling once for crying because his best friend got one.
I don’t think that corporal punishment is necessarily a bad idea in all cases. However, I’m absolutely not willing to grant some piddly-ass school administrator license to inflict physical pain on my child. If my child is that distruptive, then you can kick him/her out if you see fit, but you leave the beatings to me.