Boy swimmers race against girls in Mass. People not happy

[Small Town Guy]

The Times had a couple interesting pieces on high school swimming in Massachusetts. Now there's a sentence I didn't think I'd ever type.

Anyway, boys are allowed to compete on the girls teams because of the "open access amendment."

Boys have been members of girls swim teams since the 1980s, but until recently they were mostly a sideshow. It has only been in the last year or two that boys have swum well enough to draw attention — and people’s ire. The epicenter of the debate is the 50-yard freestyle, an event in which strength can trump talent or technique.

Here's the original piece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/sports/boys-swimming-on-girls-teams-find-success-then-draw-ire.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=sports

And then a girl did beat a boy for a title.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/broderick-wins-massachusetts-girls-swim-title-against-field-including-boys.html

 

[poindexter]

this is another example where, the facts of the case are so simple, yet people will stick boys' names on girls records because, well, RULES ARE RULES!

People will look at this story in 50 years and say, "Man, those people were stupid".

 

[LongTimeListener]

What douches these boys' parents must be.

 

[poindexter]

It is a d-bag move. I mean, I assume that these are pretty mediocre boys swimmers. To be on a high school team does promote self-esteem, etc.

But setting girls' records? Really?

Are there not swimming clubs these boys could join?

 

[MonsterLobster]

Sounds like an issue the state organization can eliminate by making the boys and girls swim seasons overlap. I'm sure there are some hurdles or it would have been like that already, but this sounds like a bigger headache.

 

[ChrisMaza]

As a former Massachusetts high school swim coach, I find this interesting because in Winter swimming, at least in our league, coed competition is not allowed.

 

[ChrisMaza]

Ah ok, it's a league rule, not an MIAA rule. Doesn't seem to be an MIAA guideline regarding mixed gender. Had to look it up because out in the western part of the state, there is no fall swimming, just the winter.
In any rate, this is the Pioneer Valley Interscholastic Athletic Conference bylaw re: gender.

"5. Each meet that is scheduled will consist of a boys’ meet and a girls’ meet, to be held at the

same location, at the same scheduled time, with boys’ and girls’ events alternating (except

for diving, which will be held as a combined event, but scored separately). Each meet will

be scored. However, if one team (boys or girls) has less than four participants on their roster

as of the first day of scheduled competition, that team will not have scores reported to the

media nor will the meet results be counted in the record of either competitor. Boys will

swim against boys and girls will swim against girls. If a team adds or loses members after

the first day of competition, the team results will still be based on the original roster size, as

of the first day of competition. There will be no mixed gender competition."

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Why can't they solve the problem by having the seasons at the same time and close the loophole by not allowing boys on girls teams?

 

[LongTimeListener]

Why can't they solve the problem by having the seasons at the same time and close the loophole by not allowing boys on girls teams?

Some douchey parent will sue, saying that if girls can play on boys teams like football, boys can play on girls teams. That douchey parent will then continue to raise a douchey kid who grows up and forever laments that he would have gotten that job except the company had to hire a chick or a black guy, and the white man just can't get a fair shake in the world today.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Why can't they solve the problem by having the seasons at the same time and close the loophole by not allowing boys on girls teams?

Some douchey parent will sue, saying that if girls can play on boys teams like football, boys can play on girls teams. That douchey parent will then continue to raise a douchey kid who grows up and forever laments that he would have gotten that job except the company had to hire a chick or a black guy, and the white man just can't get a fair shake in the world today.

I live in Georgia, where the swimming season is in the winter and the boys and girls have separate teams. If a school has like one or two guys who swim, they're the boys team, period. I can't imagine something like a guy swimming on a girls team down here. The parents and kid would probably get sent out to the city limits on a rail.

 

[Starman]

Higgins’s winning time of 23.96 was a personal best by one second. He broke the girls’ sectional record, set in 1985 by Cynthia Kangos of Wellesley, by 14-hundredths of a second. (The boys’ sectional record is 21.40.)

LMAO.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Higgins’s winning time of 23.96 was a personal best by one second. He broke the girls’ sectional record, set in 1985 by Cynthia Kangos of Wellesley, by 14-hundredths of a second. (The boys’ sectional record is 21.40.)

LMAO.

That tells you all you need to know right there.

 

[Gator]

Don't blame the kids .. they just want to swim. Blame the MIAA, which should have come up with a solution to such a problem.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Don't blame the kids .. they just want to swim. Blame the MIAA, which should have come up with a solution to such a problem.

You're exactly right. The association needs to fix the problem.

 

[zagoshe]

For the life of me I cannot understand two concepts:

The need for some people to have their boys compete in any girls sports

The need for some people to have their kids play down age wise in any competitive sport

What do you get out of that?

Seriously - we have an in-house league for our local community youth basketball league but when the girls get to 8th grade there just aren't enough players to have a league. So we create three teams if we are lucky and then to get more games, we play them in the local travel 7th grade league. But we do it because we have rec teams playing against competitive travel teams - so if we didn't move them down, they'd get slaughtered. As it is they don't usually win a game but at least they are in most of the games.

So in that situation fine - but when you go to these AAU Tournaments and you see these teams that are 7th grade teams in the 7th grade league but have three 8th graders - because the rules allow for exceptions - I wonder, really wonder what the hell people are thinking? How does it benefit these kids to play down like that?

 

[zagoshe]

Maybe it's my own ignorance, but how is this any different than when girls join the wrestling team?

Because in that case girls are looking for a challenge not an easy win.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Maybe it's my own ignorance, but how is this any different than when girls join the wrestling team?

As I was saying ...

Why can't they solve the problem by having the seasons at the same time and close the loophole by not allowing boys on girls teams?

Some douchey parent will sue, saying that if girls can play on boys teams like football, boys can play on girls teams. That douchey parent will then continue to raise a douchey kid who grows up and forever laments that he would have gotten that job except the company had to hire a chick or a black guy, and the white man just can't get a fair shake in the world today.

At least you recognize your own ignorance, though. However, I will point out for the record, since you appear not to have noticed this, that girls and boys are different. Different sizes, different body parts, different physical capabilities.

Also girls have cooties.

 

[Gator]

Maybe it's my own ignorance, but how is this any different than when girls join the wrestling team?

Because in that case girls are looking for a challenge not an easy win.

That's crap. They don't have any other choice.

The bottom line is that people hate when boys compete with girls, one way or the other. A few years back, a girl won the state golf title, and I wrote a column ripping the interscholastic association because the girls have their own championship. In the co-ed one, this girl who won played from the women's tees (obviously) but ended up playing 1,500 yards shorter (three average par 5s, as I pointed out) and won by 2 strokes.

It's such a lose-lose situation.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Maybe it's my own ignorance, but how is this any different than when girls join the wrestling team?

Because in that case girls are looking for a challenge not an easy win.

That's crap. They don't have any other choice.

The bottom line is that people hate when boys compete with girls, one way or the other. A few years back, a girl won the state golf title, and I wrote a column ripping the interscholastic association because the girls have their own championship. In the co-ed one, this girl who won played from the women's tees (obviously) but ended up playing 1,500 yards shorter (three average par 5s, as I pointed out) and won by 2 strokes.

It's such a lose-lose situation.

She played in the same tournament and played 1,500 yards shorter than her competitors? Is that right? That is so insanely stupid I can't even comprehend it.

 

[zagoshe]

Maybe it's my own ignorance, but how is this any different than when girls join the wrestling team?

Because in that case girls are looking for a challenge not an easy win.

That's crap. They don't have any other choice.

The bottom line is that people hate when boys compete with girls, one way or the other. A few years back, a girl won the state golf title, and I wrote a column ripping the interscholastic association because the girls have their own championship. In the co-ed one, this girl who won played from the women's tees (obviously) but ended up playing 1,500 yards shorter (three average par 5s, as I pointed out) and won by 2 strokes.

It's such a lose-lose situation.

Either way you want to call it -- girls wrestling boys are not taking on inferior athletes.

Boys swimming in girls events are.

And the girl winning a golf tournament by playing shorter tees is idiotic. If she played from the same tees it would be fine.