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Catching up with my Sports Illustrateds and read the story on Michael Beasley going to K State. Six high schools in four years, his ride is a late model SUV, his mom got a job in Manhattan, he said he didn't even know where Kansas was when he agreed to follow one of his AAU coaches there.
Don't know if its cheating or not, but it doesn't seem kosher. I wonder if we'll see more NCAA problems with the top talen being required to go to college before jumping to the NBA?
You read enough stories about top athletes in colleges and you can read between the lines that something is going on in more than a few of them. The way AAU coaches have become "player agents" is just plain odd. I'm surprised the AAU, which used to pay some lip service to "integrity" continues to let its name be used with some of these national travelling b-ball programs.
 
The real scandal is in the AAU and traveling-team programs. That's where the absolute pimps and slave brokers operate.
 
The rulebook is too damn complicated for any program to be pristine.

I'd bet that in basketball there are as many as 35 programs (about 10 percent of Division I) right now sliding money to players with the coach's knowledge. Doesn't have to be big money, but you know it's in unmarked bills.

About twice that many probably have boosters doing the dirty work.

Of the remaining 225 or so, it's a safe bet that a bunch go the "payment in lieu of cash" route with prepaid phone cards, supermarket gift cards, arrangements with restaurant owners or sneaker stores that are friends of the program, etc. I'm not talking four-figure payouts to any kid, but likely enough help so that he can take his girlfriend out for pizza and a movie.
 
I'll take a page out of the coach I interviewed and submit these rules. I am basing this on the principle that these are supposed to be students participating in extracurricular activities, like the NCAA always tries to claim. I'll admit, by no means is this a perfect list. But what the heck, it's worth a shot. Violate them, see ya:

RECRUITING

1. Players are allowed to have two meetings with assistant coaches and three meetings with head coaches. They can also give/receive five phone calls from a combination of coaches. Coaches (assistant or head coach) can watch an athlete compete 3 times a year, in either high school or AAU. Coaches cannot watch athletes during any practice.
What constitutes a meeting? Saying 'hello' is a meeting. (drastic I know, but a line has to be made).

2. Athletes can make 5 campus visits for a total of two nights per visit. They can meet with potential teammates. They must live on-campus, and eat on-campus food. They can take the same tour that every other student makes. They can meet with head coaches once for one hour during this time (this visit counts towards the limit).

3. Students are allowed to transfer to another school of their choice, while sitting out one year of play, . Coaches are allowed to leave for another school, but must also not coach the team for one year if they are currently under contract. (If this means hiring an interim coach for one year, too bad. Transfer coaches are not allowed to attend practices or games.

COMPENSATION
1. Athletes are to receive scholarships for five years. Scholarships pay for room, board, books, and fees. These scholarships can only be taken away if an athlete is convicted of a crime in a court of law. Athletes can work jobs, at a wage they can negotiate. This must be legitimate employment, with records being kept.

2. Coaches are to be paid no more than each school's president. Coaches must teach an academic class in line with the school's requirements (this can eliminate relatives being hired as 'assistants'. Coaches cannot work more than 60 hours per week, including travel time and class time. (this is for their physical and mental health).

3. Athletes cannot receive any gifts that cost more than $10. (Somebody buys them a beer, that's fine. A car is a no-no).

4. Any money generated by endorsements/sponsorships, must go to the school for use in its general fund. (No more coaches making kids wear sneakers so the coaches can get paid).

STUDENT LIFE:
1. Athletes must maintain at least a 2.0 grade point average and keep in line with the school's graduation requirements. They must keep with the school's attendance requirements. They must be on course to graduate in five years.

2. Athletes cannot be forced to participate in team practices/meetings for more than 10 hours per week (If it means quarterbacks are drawing plays in the dirt, so be it). Athletes may also volunteer their time for five hours a week. Coaches cannot be present at these five hours. (If you want to train for the Olympics or the NFL, tough ****. You are in school to go to school!).

3. Teams cannot travel to play in any road contests more than 50 miles from campus from Monday through Thursday (too bad, ESPN). Teams cannot make their players miss more than three days of classes in a season for travel. Postseason contests are an exception (I admit for selfish reasons, I love the first two days of the NCAA Tournament).


I'm sure I've missed some stuff. But hey, give me a break, I'm trying to write this while on 5 hours of sleep.
 
I bet many more basketball and football players are paid outside the boundaries of the rules than you think.

I bet certain coaches (Bob Knight, Roy Williams) never played with fire. But I bet a lot more toe the line, lean over the line, and sometimes walk over the line.

Because winning is the most important thing, according to the ****-face boosters and fans.
 
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Someone in this thread brought up Kansas State. I have a hard time believing that after 20 years of mediocrity, the best prep basketball player in the country and future NBA stud thought to himself, "You know? Manhattan, Kansas seems like the place for me to show my game off for one year."
 
kingcreole said:
Someone in this thread brought up Kansas State. I have a hard time believing that after 20 years of mediocrity, the best prep basketball player in the country and future NBA stud thought to himself, "You know? Manhattan, Kansas seems like the place for me to show my game off for one year."


Yeah, we did. How else can you attract a critical mass of legitimate college talent (in either football or basketball) to Manhattan, KS? I ask you.
 
I believe Ed DeChellis at Penn State does not cheat.

I believe the results are self-evident.
 
Shaggy said:
I bet many more basketball and football players are paid outside the boundaries of the rules than you think.

I bet certain coaches (Bob Knight, Roy Williams) never played with fire. But I bet a lot more toe the line, lean over the line, and sometimes walk over the line.

Because winning is the most important thing, according to the ****-face boosters and fans.

Roy Williams never played with fire? Make me laugh.

That's the problem. The people like Roy and K have the "White Hat." They can do no wrong. The guys like Huggins and Cal have the "Black Hat." They are perceived as cheaters.

The truth? They're all the same.
 
spinning27 said:
Shaggy said:
I bet many more basketball and football players are paid outside the boundaries of the rules than you think.

I bet certain coaches (Bob Knight, Roy Williams) never played with fire. But I bet a lot more toe the line, lean over the line, and sometimes walk over the line.

Because winning is the most important thing, according to the ****-face boosters and fans.

Roy Williams never played with fire? Make me laugh.

That's the problem. The people like Roy and K have the "White Hat." They can do no wrong. The guys like Huggins and Cal have the "Black Hat." They are perceived as cheaters.

The truth? They're all the same.

I find Calipari amazing because he's taken two programs that were off the radar in non-BCS conferences and turned them in to the No. 1 teams in the country. That alone would seem to indicate something's up, but then again I don't think he was recruiting a squad full of McD All-Americans at UMass. Even the Camby situation had to with an agent, not recruiting IIRC.
 
kingcreole said:
Someone in this thread brought up Kansas State. I have a hard time believing that after 20 years of mediocrity, the best prep basketball player in the country and future NBA stud thought to himself, "You know? Manhattan, Kansas seems like the place for me to show my game off for one year."

You're still pissed KU lost that game a couple weeks ago? Get over it, man.

Obviously K-State came in to a tremendous TREMENDOUS amount of talent this year, not just with Beasley, but with Bill Walker and a couple other freshman -- guys that in the past would have stopped opening letters from K-State when they were 7th graders.

I think K-State, rather than an example of a team cheating its brains out and sending trunks full of cash all over the place, is an example of a team taking advantage of the weird and dark world major college basketball recruiting has become. You're right -- Michael Beasley didn't just throw a dart at a map. Bob Huggins hired Dalonte Hill, who had been linked with Beasley for years and years. Beasley was committed to Charlotte before he was committed to K-State. Did K-State just outbid Charlotte? I doubt it, at least not in the typical sense. It outbid for Hill, who in turn brought Beasley.

It's obviously shades of gray. K-State isn't the only school to hire a friend or family member to land a player. I think there's a ton of stuff that happens in that gray area, be it hiring a family member or any of 1,000 other things ... I have a hard time believing too much crosses all the way over into the black, however.
 
Didn't Larry Brown hire a truck driver named Ed Manning as an assistant at KU? His son turned out to be a pretty good ballplayer.
 
Yep, that's one of the favored shady loopholes. Since you can't pay the kid directly, see if you can pay someone influential in the kid's life, be it friend, family, or AAU coach, by arranging a job offer they otherwise could not get. There're so many cases of that game that have gone unreported.
 
the fop said:
Didn't Larry Brown hire a truck driver named Ed Manning as an assistant at KU? His son turned out to be a pretty good ballplayer.

People always latch on to the fact he happened to be driving a truck at the time he was hired, but fail to mention that Ed Manning played pro ball for nine years, including a few for Larry Brown in the ABA so they already had a close relationship. Ed Manning also still works in the NBA and I don't think that's because any teams are hoping to snatch up Danny as a free agent.

There have been much shadier cases of a kid's parents or AAU coaches getting a job -- at KU, Duke, just about everywhere -- than the Manning situation.
 
Jake_Taylor said:
the fop said:
Didn't Larry Brown hire a truck driver named Ed Manning as an assistant at KU? His son turned out to be a pretty good ballplayer.

People always latch on to the fact he happened to be driving a truck at the time he was hired, but fail to mention that Ed Manning played pro ball for nine years, including a few for Larry Brown in the ABA so they already had a close relationship. Ed Manning also still works in the NBA and I don't think that's because any teams are hoping to snatch up Danny as a free agent.

There have been much shadier cases of a kid's parents or AAU coaches getting a job -- at KU, Duke, just about everywhere -- than the Manning situation.

Wade Houston, anyone? He's the only guy I can remember getting a head-coaching job because of his son ...
 
Jake_Taylor said:
the fop said:
Didn't Larry Brown hire a truck driver named Ed Manning as an assistant at KU? His son turned out to be a pretty good ballplayer.

People always latch on to the fact he happened to be driving a truck at the time he was hired, but fail to mention that Ed Manning played pro ball for nine years, including a few for Larry Brown in the ABA so they already had a close relationship.

I hope you're not suggesting there's any chance that Brown would've offered an assistant coaching job to Ed Manning, at a time when he was truck driver with zero coaching experience, even if his son did not just happen to be the best high school prospect in the country at the time. You can't be that naive.
 
I don't think there's much question there's plenty of cheating on the college level, because there are plenty of high schools that skirt the rules. In my area, we had a slew of forfeits and suspensions last football season for players who were enrolled at schools outside of their boundaries. Four perennial playoff teams, including a defending state champion, didn't make the playoffs because of it. It had been going on for years, but was impossible to prove until someone blew the whistle. One pissed off parent with an axe to grind brought the whole thing down.

And it seems to me that's the only way one of these "scandals" ever becomes public knowledge. Someone gets angry and starts yapping. I think the problem isn't so much people violating rules, it's others who are aware of it -- and there always are people aware -- who look the other way. Their silence is consent.

One of the big reasons our local situation went on as long as it did was because nobody in the coaching fraternity wanted to rat anyone out. Hence, it was a parent who got it started. I've never understood why a coach in East Podunk who loses a player to West Podunk and knows it's against the rules doesn't go screaming from the rooftops.
 
Stoney said:
Jake_Taylor said:
the fop said:
Didn't Larry Brown hire a truck driver named Ed Manning as an assistant at KU? His son turned out to be a pretty good ballplayer.

People always latch on to the fact he happened to be driving a truck at the time he was hired, but fail to mention that Ed Manning played pro ball for nine years, including a few for Larry Brown in the ABA so they already had a close relationship.

I hope you're not suggesting there's any chance that Brown would've offered an assistant coaching job to Ed Manning, at a time when he was truck driver with zero coaching experience, even if his son did not just happen to be the best high school prospect in the country at the time. You can't be that naive.

Who knows what would have happened if a son-less Ed Manning had called up his old friend Larry Brown and asked for a job? No doubt having Danny as a son didn't hurt his cause. But the guy has been involved with college and pro basketball as a player, coach and scout for 40 of the past 45 years. That's not all because of he had a son that was a great college basketball player 20 years ago. I'm not saying it wasn't a shady, but to me it's a different shade of gray when they already had a relationship.

I'd say pulling Mario Chalmers' dad out of Alaska and giving him a job is worse than the Manning situation. So is Chris Duhon's mom somehow landing a high-paying job in Durham after her son signed with Duke. Or there's Missouri hiring Lee Winfield, signing his son Julian, then firing Lee about five minutes after Julian's eligibility was up.

There are so many of these stories, but people see "truck driver" and "national championship" in the Manning story and it becomes more sensational.
 
Jake_Taylor said:
There are so many of these stories, but people see "truck driver" and "national championship" in the Manning story and it becomes more sensational.

Actually, I think folks might be more likely to notice that Kansas was placed on a probation just a couple months after they won the national championship for entirely unrelated violations.

As for the Manning thing, I believe you're exaggerating a bit with the claim of a pre-existing "close relationship". Ed Manning played for the Carolina Cougars in the ABA for a couple seasons when Larry Brown was their coach, and that was pretty much the extent of their relationship until the mid-80s when ole Larry discovered that the nation's best high school prospect was the son of a player he'd once coached. That connection provided an excuse to get in with the Mannings that other coaches did not have, but you're deluding yourself if you believe there's any chance that job offer might've come even without Danny.

But do other schools do the same sort of ****? Hell yeah, and in countless cases that never get reported on. But please don't pretend the Manning hire was somehow more innocent. Nobody here's that naive.
 

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