Baseball stands ordered torn down for being better than softball's

[Batman]

While we're at it, on the subject of the Plymouth school district's obviously profound and perceptive thinking on possible consequences (see also their obvious and blatant infringement on the Nashville Predators' trademark, a case which any trademark attorney would tell you they WILL LOSE in a micromillisecond should the Preds ever decide to take it to court), what exactly was the school district's plan to deal with the inevitable injury lawsuits when, eventually, somebody sitting in the luxurious deluxe not-obstructed-by-chain-link-fencing baseball seats got drilled with a foul ball?

Seats are put behind chain link fences for a reason. If the old-time pre-2008 baseball seating was situated behind the fences, it was to prevent people from getting drilled by foul balls. If seats are put where people can get drilled by foul balls, eventually they will get drilled by foul balls. If people are drilled by foul balls, eventually one will sue. What was the plan then?

They have these amazing things now called nets. They stop foul balls in their tracks. Lots of fields -- even high school fields -- have them. Wonderful invention, the net.

 

[Starman]

While we're at it, on the subject of the Plymouth school district's obviously profound and perceptive thinking on possible consequences (see also their obvious and blatant infringement on the Nashville Predators' trademark, a case which any trademark attorney would tell you they WILL LOSE in a micromillisecond should the Preds ever decide to take it to court), what exactly was the school district's plan to deal with the inevitable injury lawsuits when, eventually, somebody sitting in the luxurious deluxe not-obstructed-by-chain-link-fencing baseball seats got drilled with a foul ball?

Seats are put behind chain link fences for a reason. If the old-time pre-2008 baseball seating was situated behind the fences, it was to prevent people from getting drilled by foul balls. If seats are put where people can get drilled by foul balls, eventually they will get drilled by foul balls. If people are drilled by foul balls, eventually one will sue. What was the plan then?

They have these amazing things now called nets. They stop foul balls in their tracks. Lots of fields -- even high school fields -- have them. Wonderful invention, the net.

but but but but but but but ... they said they had to build the beautiful snazzy baseball seats because they were behind a chain link fence!!!!!

 

[apeman33]

Weighing in a bit late, but it was a busy day. This is the school district, and campus, I attended. And, yes, this is bull**** because the baseball program raised extra money; the softball program didn't. Unfortunately, there's a nearby case that supports this: The same thing happened about 10 years ago at Ann Arbor Huron High School, which is about 15 miles west. The softball facilities were upgraded by the district to match what the baseball program had raised.

And, like was said above, the three high schools in the Plymouth-Canton district aren't cross-town rivals. They're cross-campus rivals. All three schools are on the same campus, and students have classes at all three. On top of that, students at the middle schools are randomly assigned to one of the high schools when they're still in middle school. If you have an older sibling on campus when you arrive, you can switch. Otherwise, tough.

When I was there (class of '83), Plymouth High didn't exist. It was just Canton (my school) and Salem. It was unusual getting on the bus with the kids I went to elementary and middle school with, only to have half of us trudge to Canton and half to Salem.

The good thing - strike that, great thing - about that campus is that with 6,000 kids (4,000 when I was there), the class offerings are incredible. I felt like I already was going to college.

As far as extracurriculars, each school has its own sports teams, but several of the other programs are combined. I worked at the radio station (at Salem) and the newspaper (at Canton); my sister was in the marching and symphony bands (at Canton). The radio station celebrated its 40th anniversary two years ago. Working there was an amazing experience, and the friendships remain.

For those who say a campus that size is impersonal, it is if you want it to be. A 200-student high school can be impersonal if you choose.

There are many, many small districts in metro Detroit that could take a lesson from Plymouth-Canton about the power in numbers, even if there are bull**** things like this baseball-softball dispute.

Something tells me that in Kansas, they'd call bull**** on this and say, "Nope, this is one high school so you get one athletic team."

Which would be a lot more logical than a lot of other things Kansas has done lately.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Which doesn't change my point at all.

But keep trying little man.

Which is why your point is wrong.

I'll put it another way. Say a donor wants to build a fancy locker room for a public school's boys basketball team. That donor, or the school, has to also provide a fancy locker room for the girls basketball team, or otherwise, the school cannot accept the donation.

How is this concept so hard to get through your head?

Uh, that concept is incorrect. You don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

 

[Batman]

While we're at it, on the subject of the Plymouth school district's obviously profound and perceptive thinking on possible consequences (see also their obvious and blatant infringement on the Nashville Predators' trademark, a case which any trademark attorney would tell you they WILL LOSE in a micromillisecond should the Preds ever decide to take it to court), what exactly was the school district's plan to deal with the inevitable injury lawsuits when, eventually, somebody sitting in the luxurious deluxe not-obstructed-by-chain-link-fencing baseball seats got drilled with a foul ball?

Seats are put behind chain link fences for a reason. If the old-time pre-2008 baseball seating was situated behind the fences, it was to prevent people from getting drilled by foul balls. If seats are put where people can get drilled by foul balls, eventually they will get drilled by foul balls. If people are drilled by foul balls, eventually one will sue. What was the plan then?

They have these amazing things now called nets. They stop foul balls in their tracks. Lots of fields -- even high school fields -- have them. Wonderful invention, the net.

but but but but but but but ... they said they had to build the beautiful snazzy baseball seats because they were behind a chain link fence!!!!!

Because trying to watch baseball through chain link fences does suck. So you take down the fence and replace it with a net. Or you put it far enough down the baseline that you don't get drilled with the nasty, late-swing foul balls. I've seen lots of high school fields where parents have built a little party deck or something like the Plymouth set-up on the right side of the first base dugout. It's no more dangerous than sitting in similar seats at a major league game.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Which doesn't change my point at all.

But keep trying little man.

Which is why your point is wrong.

I'll put it another way. Say a donor wants to build a fancy locker room for a public school's boys basketball team. That donor, or the school, has to also provide a fancy locker room for the girls basketball team, or otherwise, the school cannot accept the donation.

How is this concept so hard to get through your head?

Uh, that concept is incorrect. You don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

And as usual, you say that people are wrong and you don't actually offer anything to back it up.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Another issue on which the court focused in its ruling related to the financial resources needed to provide equitable treatment for female student-athletes in the provision of “other athletics benefits and opportunities.” In addition to school-allocated funding for sports programs, teams often receive outside funding through booster clubs, donors, fundraising efforts, corporate sponsorships and grants from third-party organizations. Such outside funding may lead to inequities in one or more of the PLAYING FAIR categories, but does not mitigate the duty of the school to comply with Title IX. In the Ollier decision, the court concluded that no one at CPHS had monitored such outside funding for its impact on the equitable treatment of girls sports at the school and that the lack of oversight had contributed to the aforementioned inequities

http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=6922

Yep, the National Federation of State High School Associations doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[jr/shotglass]

****, and I thought I got nasty in my little play wars.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Did I miss something?

 

[YankeeFan]

Which doesn't change my point at all.

But keep trying little man.

Which is why your point is wrong.

I'll put it another way. Say a donor wants to build a fancy locker room for a public school's boys basketball team. That donor, or the school, has to also provide a fancy locker room for the girls basketball team, or otherwise, the school cannot accept the donation.

How is this concept so hard to get through your head?

Baseball and softball are two different sports.

 

[YankeeFan]

Still waiting on a second source to verify this story.

It's a good point:

"The U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights opened an investigation following an anonymous complaint. Ultimately, officials demanded that the seating and scoreboard be torn down because the upgrades are superior to Plymouth's girls' softball facilities. The boys' seating is also not handicap accessible, which is a separate violation of government regulations."

Who demanded this remedy, and how did they communicate it?

Why don't we have a name, and why don't we have a document with this "demand" we can read from?

 

[Bob Cook]

I want to look more into this, because a lot of this seems like bull****.

Obviously, it's true the school is tearing out the baseball stands. But did the OCR really order the district to do that? I doubt it. Did the OCR note there could be a possible Title IX violation? Possibly. Did it issue a citation? Maybe it was a warning. Was this reporter fed a lot of bull**** by upset baseball parents? Oh yeah. Could the issue have been that the seating wasn't handicapped-accessible. Maybe.

It's interesting, too, that I've seen zero other local media outlets pick this up. Not to say there isn't something to this, but I've got a lot more questions than answers coming out of that "report."

 

[Bob Cook]

Funny what Google can find -- the actual investigation in question:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/investigations/more/15131020-a.pdf

Here's the money graf:

The District has signed the enclosed resolution agreement, which, once implemented, will fully address the information obtained during the investigation in accordance with Title IX. The agreement requires the District to: renovate the School’s varsity softball field to include a scoreboard and seating equivalent to what is provided at the School’s varsity baseball field; and provide the School’s girls’ lacrosse team with access to an on-campus practice facility equivalent to that provided to the boys’ lacrosse team.

So the government did not tell the district to tear out the fields. And by the way, this agreement was in place last Halloween. I'd like to find out from the superintendent whether there was an attempt to do fund-raising for softball seats, or get money to build them, instead of just tearing out the baseball seats.

 

[Amy]

Funny what Google can find -- the actual investigation in question:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/investigations/more/15131020-a.pdf

Here's the money graf:

The District has signed the enclosed resolution agreement, which, once implemented, will fully address the information obtained during the investigation in accordance with Title IX. The agreement requires the District to: renovate the School’s varsity softball field to include a scoreboard and seating equivalent to what is provided at the School’s varsity baseball field; and provide the School’s girls’ lacrosse team with access to an on-campus practice facility equivalent to that provided to the boys’ lacrosse team.

So the government did not tell the district to tear out the fields. And by the way, this agreement was in place last Halloween. I'd like to find out from the superintendent whether there was an attempt to do fund-raising for softball seats, or get money to build them, instead of just tearing out the baseball seats.

I thought this comment from one of the athletic directors about the bleachers was interesting

He said that he is not particularly happy with the seating patio, and he would not mind if it were removed. He noted that it is above the fence line, in the line where foul balls could be hit. He said this raises safety concerns.

Maybe the real reason the bleachers were removed.

 

[mustangj17]

Fun Facts.

1. As mentioned, the schools are not across town. They are all on the same campus. All three of them. At first it was two schools. Salem High School for the Plymouth kids and Canton High School for the Canton kids. They went to their designated schools for homeroom and that decided where they played sports, but they intermingled between the entire larger campus. When it got too big they added a third high school: Plymouth High School on the same campus. Now it is a complete hot mess of like 5,000 kids or more on one property.

2. The athletic director at Plymouth High School is Terry Sawchuck Jr. his dad was a goalie. You may have heard of him.

3. Salem High School has an interesting mascot. They are the Rocks. The Salem Rocks.

4. The students chose the Predators logo and colors. But they are actually the Wildcats. The school was formed during the time where the Catholic priests were being sexual predators and getting in the news. School thought it was bad PR. Went with Wildcats.

 

[Bob Cook]

I can understand why they wouldn't go with Predators. No one wants to see someone from another school bringing a Pedo Bear mascot. It's also why, I presume, Nashville doesn't have a youth league program called the Child Predators.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Which doesn't change my point at all.

But keep trying little man.

Which is why your point is wrong.

I'll put it another way. Say a donor wants to build a fancy locker room for a public school's boys basketball team. That donor, or the school, has to also provide a fancy locker room for the girls basketball team, or otherwise, the school cannot accept the donation.

How is this concept so hard to get through your head?

Baseball and softball are two different sports.

Only difference is that they use a different size ball and might have a few other different rules. The concept is the same, plus softball evolved from baseball.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Softball and baseball are extraordinarily different.

 

[DeskMonkey1]

Softball is only similar enough to baseball for me to say "this isn't baseball."

 

[Bob Cook]

If you read the report, the government did a full review of the school's athletic program, so it wasn't just about a comparison of boys-to-girls in one sport. However, it does look at similar sports as a subset, which is why it made its ruling on baseball and its girls' equivalent, softball. The ruling also covered lacrosse, too.