American workers not "best in the world." In fact, we're actually kind of bad.

[Dick Whitman]

In the least surprising news since Tim Lincecum was busted for smoking weed, ****ty American students have turned into ****ty American employees or, as the case may be, unemployees:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/business/economy/stubborn-skills-gap-in-americas-work-force.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

In a nutshell:

One big reason that Americans remain unemployed isn't because they don't want to find work, as the mantra so often goes. It is that they don't have anything to offer.

 

[hondo]

In the least surprising news since Tim Lincecum was busted for smoking weed, ****ty American students have turned into ****ty American employees or, as the case may be, unemployees:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/business/economy/stubborn-skills-gap-in-americas-work-force.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

In a nutshell:

One big reason that Americans remain unemployed isn't because they don't want to find work, as the mantra so often goes. It is that they don't have anything to offer.

American in his/her 20s to prospective employers: "I don't have anything to offer because you won't offer me a company phone, company car, 2 p.m. naps, X-boxes in the break room and two free meals a day in the cafeteria for an entry-level job. Oh, and you won't tell me five times a day that I'm special because I try really hard."

 

[RickStain]

But we're *really* good at sports. So it all balances out.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

Murrican Exceptionalism

 

[YankeeFan]

Just read this.

It's really crazy. Having a skill that is in demand is how you make money, and gain the leverage necessary to make more money.

The highly skilled in the United States earn a much larger wage premium over unskilled workers than in most, if not all, other advanced nations, where regulations, unions and taxes tend to temper inequality. So if the rewards for skills are so high, why is the supply of skilled workers so sluggish?

The "you didn't build that" crowd has made success almost shameful.

Too many would like us to be more like Europe, where they "temper inequality". But, since we don't live in a European social Democracy, advocates of this do the rest of us a disservice.

We need to tell kids that they must work hard, and acquire a skill. But, that goes against everything union teachers believe in.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Too many would like us to be more like Europe, where they "temper inequality".

I think we should temper inequality. I don't think we should temper inequality at the expense of growth. And I certainly don't think we should be protecting, for the long haul, obsolete jobs. You can't will them into continued relevance, and trying to do so is just Soviet central planning on a smaller scale. My Congressman is one of the worst about it, too.

We need to tell kids that they must work hard, and acquire a skill. But, that goes against everything union teachers believe in.

Generalizing. Too far. The problem with teachers isn' t the one you cite. It's that most of them come out of the bottom one-third of their college graduating classes. They'd love to teach their students to acquire a skill. They just aren't, on a large scale, and with no help from many parents, capable of imparting those skills. Mix that with systemic issues that we have discussed ad nauseum here and, well, see link above.

 

[User 11148]

I'm going to do my best to steer way the hell clear of the politics here, but I can tell you that this article hits the nail on the head with regard to the numeracy issue. I know not everyone has it in him/her to be a mathematician, but the level of mathematical incompetence I encounter on a regular basis is absolutely astounding.

I did a derivative on the board the other night in my MBA class and I daresay that at least two-thirds of the class had no idea in hell what I was doing. Not just the mechanics, but what it meant. Now keep in mind that every one of these students had, at some point in his/her life, sat in a classroom "studying" calculus. So what in the hell happened?

 

[Dick Whitman]

The latest issue of "Skeptic" magazine notes that the biggest correlation between a nation and its poor performance in STEM subjects is its devotion to religious fundamentalism.

Sounds about right.

I'll dig up the precise passage at lunch.

 

[britwrit]

This is a complicated subject. But part of the problem is that students probably don't want to spend six years of their life expensively learning a skill that will be obsolete in another five, or outsourced. I know manufacturing is coming back in America thanks to automation but are you going to bet the farm on a lifetime career in it?

Plus - assuming Americans aren't simply genetically inferior - I see students smart enough for these fields heading straight for medicine or accountancy. When was the last time the Doctor Factory had a lay-off?

 

[Dick Whitman]

This is a complicated subject. But part of the problem is that students probably don't want to spend six years of their life expensively learning a skill that will be obsolete in another five, or outsourced.

But it's not that expensive to pay attention in your high school math or English class. People aren't even doing that much, this indicates.

 

[deskslave]

I would suggest that what the "I built that all by myself" crowd has done is undermine at every possible turn the fundamental infrastructure needed to produce these highly skilled workers, not to mention systematically devaluing the very skills they claim to need. For every business owner who seeks highly skilled workers, there are plenty more who are content to get by with moderately skilled workers, preferably in a third-world country that's less finicky about things like paying a decent wage.

 

[Dick Whitman]

For every business owner who seeks highly skilled workers, there are plenty more who are content to get by with moderately skilled workers, preferably in a third-world country that's less finicky about things like paying a decent wage.

You're talking about different things. A business owner doesn't want highly skilled workers to answer phones or sew buttons or glue a bumper on. Of course he's going to outsource those jobs, as he should. He or she wants highly skilled workers to program computers or draft contracts or innovate the processes.

 

[User 11148]

One thing I think our education system, of which I am a part, does to exacerbate this is to so severely compartmentalize learning/subjects. It's very difficult to get even the best students to see how this all fits together. Further, there's a sense that each course/area of instruction is to be taken on independent of all others.

I recall an undergrad who told me that she was struggling in my course because she wasn't "good at math," but that was OK because of her major. "Oh? What's your major?" I asked. "Finance," she replied. YGBFKM.

 

[Morris816]

I think the issue of how we deliver math and English instruction in the schools -- from elementary on up -- needs to be explored. Are we finding ways to get kids interested in the subjects at a young age? Are we too worried about sticking to a certain method of instruction rather than encouraging teachers to be creative? Is it teachers refusing to adapt when there just might be a method that could work better? Are the teachers doing their best but failing to get support from administration?

You usually find that you have to start at the bottom of the ladder to figure out what's wrong with the top -- and to remember that, once you address what is at the bottom, it will take some time to see if it resolves issues at the top and not just dwell on those already at the top who didn't get a good start at the bottom.

 

[YankeeFan]

This is a complicated subject. But part of the problem is that students probably don't want to spend six years of their life expensively learning a skill that will be obsolete in another five, or outsourced.

Certain skills can't be outsourced. We're always going to need electricians, carpenters, plumbers, and espresso machine repairmen. (And, yes, I know the trades are suffering because of a decline in building in this slow economy.)

I know manufacturing is coming back in America thanks to automation but are you going to bet the farm on a lifetime career in it?

Sure. Lot's of evidence of this. Robots are even cheaper than third world labor. They are more precise and work longer hours. If you're manufacturing for a domestic market, your product doesn't need to be shipped here from Asia.

But, look, if we know this, then it isn't that hard to see where there will be a growth in jobs. While it won't replace all the lost manufacturing jobs, there will be opportunities in designing the manufacturing systems of tomorrow, both the hardware, and the software. There will be jobs building them, installing them, and maintaining them.

And, these will be high paying jobs, since it's technical, and not enough people will have the necessary skills.

We lost bank tellers, and parking lot attendants. But, I see folks repairing automated parking machines every damn day. ATM's need service too.

If we see where the economy is going, it shouldn't be too hard to train a workforce for it.

 

[YankeeFan]

I know not everyone has it in him/her to be a mathematician, but the level of mathematical incompetence I encounter on a regular basis is absolutely astounding.

The worst is going out for a meal with co-workers, and when the check comes, more than half of the table announces that they are bad at math, and someone else will have to figure out what the tip should be, and how much everyone owes.

At one job, this was always me. And, the folks who were "bad at math" inevitably had college degrees, and were responsible for budgets at a Fortune 500 company.

 

[Songbird]

Someone should build a Meals Tip app. Would save a lot of time and stupidity.

 

[YankeeFan]

Someone should build a Meals Tip app. Would save a lot of time and stupidity.

As long as it can also divide the total by the number of guests...

 

[deskslave]

For every business owner who seeks highly skilled workers, there are plenty more who are content to get by with moderately skilled workers, preferably in a third-world country that's less finicky about things like paying a decent wage.

You're talking about different things. A business owner doesn't want highly skilled workers to answer phones or sew buttons or glue a bumper on. Of course he's going to outsource those jobs, as he should. He or she wants highly skilled workers to program computers or draft contracts or innovate the processes.

You don't think you can outsource computer programming? Um, OK.

 

[Dick Whitman]

For every business owner who seeks highly skilled workers, there are plenty more who are content to get by with moderately skilled workers, preferably in a third-world country that's less finicky about things like paying a decent wage.

You're talking about different things. A business owner doesn't want highly skilled workers to answer phones or sew buttons or glue a bumper on. Of course he's going to outsource those jobs, as he should. He or she wants highly skilled workers to program computers or draft contracts or innovate the processes.

You don't think you can outsource computer programming? Um, OK.

Acknowledged, but that seems to be besides the point, which is that employers rightfully want and will pay for skilled workers for jobs that require skilled workers, and will not pay for unskilled work they can obtain more cheaply.

This has infiltrated sports. Baseball teams can't outsource jobs to Bangladesh. But they outsource high-paid veteran jobs to low-paid rookies who are just as productive. Didn't happen in the past, when guys who batted .270 with 2 home runs a year could hang around forever. Look at the back of a baseball card from the '70s.