Ben Carson: Bungling Surgeon

[Stoney]

Ben Carson Shattering Stereotype About Brain Surgeons Being Smart

I liked these quotes from an honest self-aware brain surgeon:

“When people found out I was a brain surgeon they would always assume I was some kind of a genius,” said Harland Dorrinson, a neurosurgeon in Toledo, Ohio. “Now they are beginning to understand that you can know a lot about brain surgery and virtually nothing about anything else.”

Dorrinson said that acquaintances used to view him as a source of wisdom on a wide range of subjects, but added, “Ever since Ben Carson said that prisons make people gay, that’s really fallen off.”

This is a phenomenon I've noticed often over the years, nothing will dispel your preconceptions about a profession more than one of its best running for high office. I once thought being Admiral of the Navy and one of the most decorated officers ever meant one must be incredibly impressive, but then came Admiral Stockdale unable to complete a coherent sentence. I once thought conquering the business world meant one must be mighty impressive but then came (take your pick of so many alternatives). I once thought being a former Alaska beauty queen/small town mayor ....oops, forget that one ...but you get the idea. Guess it's ole Ben's turn to now debunk preconceptions about brain surgeons.

Suppose the lesson, as Dr. Dorrinson notes, is this: just because you know a ****-ton about one specific area does not mean you know a ******* thing about anything else.

 

[JohnHammond]

Could you actually do some research into Adm. Stockdale before spouting off? He wasn't some idiot, as you suggest.

 

[User 11148]

What is it about politicians that makes them immune to this reality? I mean, lots and lots of otherwise brilliant people run up against an epistemic horizon every day. What is it about being able to convince people to vote for you that makes this reality disappear?

 

[YankeeFan]

I once thought being Admiral of the Navy and one of the most decorated officers ever meant one must be incredibly impressive, but then came Admiral Stockdale unable to complete a coherent sentence.

Yeah, Stockdale was a totally unimpressive guy.

This honestly ranks as one of the dumbest things written here -- and that's saying something.

 

[Stoney]

Could you actually do some research into Adm. Stockdale before spouting off? He wasn't some idiot, as you suggest.

Yeah, Stockdale was a totally unimpressive guy.

Jesus Christ, some of you nitwits have quite a knack for missing the point. I damn well know Stockdale was not some idiot and was actually an extremely impressive guy ...when he was serving as a Naval Officer. Just like I'm sure Ben Carson is an extremely impressive guy ....when he's practicing medicine.

But the point is that does not come across when they enter the high stakes political world, as is often the case with folks who seem brilliant in one area but look foolish when they enter politics. Leaving your wheelhouse can make a mighty big difference in how people perceive you. The fact is Stockdale's performance in that ill-advised run with Perot in 92 left much of the country wondering how this bumbling sometimes barely-coherent dude could possibly be the same guy with that incredibly impressive resume. And if you don't admit that, you either weren't around to see it or aren't being honest with yourself.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Jesus Christ, some of you nitwits have quite a knack for missing the point. I damn well know Stockdale was not some idiot and was actually an extremely impressive guy ...when he was serving as a Naval Officer. Just like I'm sure Ben Carson is an extremely impressive guy ....when he's practicing medicine.

But the point is that does not come across when they enter the high stakes political world, as is often the case with folks who seem brilliant in one area but look foolish when they enter politics. Leaving your wheelhouse can make a mighty big difference in how people perceive you. The fact is Stockdale's performance in that ill-advised run with Perot in 92 left much of the country wondering how this bumbling barely coherent dude could possibly be the same guy with that incredibly impressive resume. And if you don't admit that, you either weren't around to see it or aren't being honest with yourself.

Since when is Hammond honest with anyone?

 

[User 11148]

Jesus Christ, some of you nitwits have quite a knack for missing the point. I damn well know Stockdale was not some idiot and was actually an extremely impressive guy ...when he was serving as a Naval Officer. Just like I'm sure Ben Carson is an extremely impressive guy ....when he's practicing medicine.

But the point is that does not come across when they enter the high stakes political world, as is often the case with folks who seem brilliant in one area but look foolish when they enter politics. Leaving your wheelhouse can make a mighty big difference in how people perceive you. The fact is Stockdale's performance in that ill-advised run with Perot in 92 left much of the country wondering how this bumbling sometimes barely-coherent dude could possibly be the same guy with that incredibly impressive resume. And if you don't admit that, you either weren't around to see it or aren't being honest with yourself.

My question stills stands, though. Why does this not work the other way?

 

[JohnHammond]

Jesus Christ, some of you nitwits have quite a knack for missing the point. I damn well know Stockdale was not some idiot and was actually an extremely impressive guy ...when he was serving as a Naval Officer. Just like I'm sure Ben Carson is an extremely impressive guy ....when he's practicing medicine.

But the point is that does not come across when they enter the high stakes political world, as is often the case with folks who seem brilliant in one area but look foolish when they enter politics. Leaving your wheelhouse can make a mighty big difference in how people perceive you. The fact is Stockdale's performance in that ill-advised run with Perot in 92 left much of the country wondering how this bumbling sometimes barely-coherent dude could possibly be the same guy with that incredibly impressive resume. And if you don't admit that, you either weren't around to see it or aren't being honest with yourself.

Most of the public are not politically "sophisticated," to put it mildly. Many believed Stockdale was senile or had serious health problems, and I doubt they even knew what he did for a living. They didn't think, "How did this guy become an admiral?" Honestly, how many people factored in his performance in the VP debate and did not vote for Perot based on that?

 

[YankeeFan]

Jesus Christ, some of you nitwits have quite a knack for missing the point. I damn well know Stockdale was not some idiot and was actually an extremely impressive guy ...when he was serving as a Naval Officer. Just like I'm sure Ben Carson is an extremely impressive guy ....when he's practicing medicine.

But the point is that does not come across when they enter the high stakes political world, as is often the case with folks who seem brilliant in one area but look foolish when they enter politics. Leaving your wheelhouse can make a mighty big difference in how people perceive you. The fact is Stockdale's performance in that ill-advised run with Perot in 92 left much of the country wondering how this bumbling sometimes barely-coherent dude could possibly be the same guy with that incredibly impressive resume. And if you don't admit that, you either weren't around to see it or aren't being honest with yourself.

Stockdale was never supposed to be Perot's runningmate come the election. He was listed on nominating petitions, as a procedural matter. When Perot dropped out, and then came back in, it was too late to name someone else.

Hoover Fellow and retired Vice Admiral James B. Stockdale has agreed to serve as "interim" vice-presidential running mate for H. Ross Perot, the Texas entrepreneur and billionaire who is an independent candidate for president.

Stockdale told reporters at a March 30 press conference in Stauffer Auditorium that he doesn't expect to be Perot's final running mate but he probably would accept if the position were offered.

"I'm not here for me. I'm here for Ross Perot. There's no budget, no arrangements, no phone bills - nothing," the 68-year-old registered Republican and Congressional Medal of Honor winner said of his agreement with Perot.

In several television appearances over the past month, Perot has said he would run for president if volunteers put his name on the ballot in all 50 states. His 800-number has logged more than a million telephone calls, presumably from would-be volunteers, since his March 16 appearance on the Larry King show, the New York Times reported on March 29.

In a March 30 press release from the Perot Petition Committee of Dallas, Texas, Perot said he was naming Stockdale as his interim running mate to meet requirements in 28 states that a running mate be identified on petitions circulated to add his name to the November ballot. Perot said he would announce a final running mate by the time of the Democratic and Republican party conventions this summer.

Stockdale to be Perot's interim running mate

If his poor debate performance -- one he really wasn't prepare for -- left you with the idea that he was only an impressive figure when/while serving as a Naval Officer, then it's likely the only thing you know about his post military career.

 

[BDC99]

Most of the public are not politically "sophisticated," to put it mildly. Many believed Stockdale was senile or had serious health problems, and I doubt they even knew what he did for a living.

Well, he also was close to 70 years old and later died of Alzheimer's. I felt bad for the guy at the time, and have no doubt he was a brilliant military man in his prime.

 

[JohnHammond]

Stockdale was never supposed to be Perot's runningmate come the election. He was listed on nominating petitions, as a procedural matter. When Perot dropped out, and then came back in, it was too late to name someone else.

Hoover Fellow and retired Vice Admiral James B. Stockdale has agreed to serve as "interim" vice-presidential running mate for H. Ross Perot, the Texas entrepreneur and billionaire who is an independent candidate for president.

Stockdale told reporters at a March 30 press conference in Stauffer Auditorium that he doesn't expect to be Perot's final running mate but he probably would accept if the position were offered.

"I'm not here for me. I'm here for Ross Perot. There's no budget, no arrangements, no phone bills - nothing," the 68-year-old registered Republican and Congressional Medal of Honor winner said of his agreement with Perot.

In several television appearances over the past month, Perot has said he would run for president if volunteers put his name on the ballot in all 50 states. His 800-number has logged more than a million telephone calls, presumably from would-be volunteers, since his March 16 appearance on the Larry King show, the New York Times reported on March 29.

In a March 30 press release from the Perot Petition Committee of Dallas, Texas, Perot said he was naming Stockdale as his interim running mate to meet requirements in 28 states that a running mate be identified on petitions circulated to add his name to the November ballot. Perot said he would announce a final running mate by the time of the Democratic and Republican party conventions this summer.

Stockdale to be Perot's interim running mate

If his poor debate performance -- one he really wasn't prepare for -- left you with the idea that he was only an impressive figure when/while serving as a Naval Officer, then it's likely the only thing you know about his post military career.

There are people here who think Stockdale was sincere when he asked "Who am I? Why am I here?"

 

[User 11148]

Most of the public are not politically "sophisticated," to put it mildly. Many believed Stockdale was senile or had serious health problems, and I doubt they even knew what he did for a living. They didn't think, "How did this guy become an admiral?" Honestly, how many people factored in his performance in the VP debate and did not vote for Perot based on that?

Oh hell, George Wallace was a serious third-party threat in '68 ... Curtis LeMay put an end to all of that. LeMay was a brilliant and decent man (he was way out front on pushes to desegregate the armed forces) but he had a political tin ear. Somehow, most people, left or right, therefore remain more impressed (for good or ill) with the guy at the top of the ticket.

It puzzles and puzzles me ...

 

[dixiehack]

The 800 number for Perot seems horse and buggy quaint now. It does make me wonder how much closer to winning he could have come to winning if his supporters had the Internet to support organizing (and if he didn't do the weird "drop out" phase over the summer.) It turned out he called it right on NAFTA.

 

[YankeeFan]

The 800 number for Perot seems horse and buggy quaint now. It does make me wonder how much closer to winning he could have come to winning if his supporters had the Internet to support organizing (and if he didn't do the weird "drop out" phase over the summer.)

He did little to no retail politics. Unlike Trump (who's obviously running in a party primary, which is different), Perot didn't really do rallies. He mostly relied on media -- free and paid, including long blocks of time purchased on all of the networks.

If he had made campaign appearances around the country, he would have earned so much more regional news coverage. I always thought it was a big mistake that he didn't do so.

It turned out he called it right on NAFTA.

He did?

 

[Smallpotatoes]

I think Ben Carson was a great surgeon.
I'll leave it at that.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

We need more presidents who give good speeches.

 

[JayFarrar]

Running for office is essentially being on live TV 24/7.

The hardest thing to do in all of media is live TV.

Politicians come up in an environment where they are always on. So they understand that pressure.

Trump gets it. He understands earned media as well as anyone but people like Carson, they become perceived as gaffe machines because of the occasional flub.

The flip side is that scrutiny gives those successful at handling the pressure a polish that always makes them glow.

So they, perhaps, have an unearned brilliance.

 

[Neutral Corner]

To answer your question regarding sponges and the like, hospitals have instituted extensive checklists to try to prevent such errors. There is a nurse whose primary duty is to keep track of all sponges, instruments and the like. Sponges are counted before surgery starts and then as they are used they are put in a hanging sheet of clear plastic pockets, one to a pocket, to make the post surgery count easier. If a patient is to have an amputation, say his right leg, then part of the prep is for a nurse to come to his room before he ever goes to surgery and mark his left leg "NO" in large letters with a Sharpie. They do everything that they can to try to prevent such things from happening.

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so damned ingenious.

 

[Alma]

We need more presidents who give good speeches.

Agreed. I'd take another Abe Lincoln.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Americans need to stop pretending that Ben Carson is a remotely plausible candidate for president. He knows nothing. He's a smart, black conservative, although not smart about anything that remotely qualifies him for the presidency.

Can you guys settle on Rubio and be done with it?