The terrorists won

[bigpern23]

I disagree that they have beaten this country Pern.

Fair enough. Why do you disagree? Do you not think they accomplished the goals they set out when they attacked us on 9-11?

 

[mike311gd]

The terrorists might have beaten some people. They have not beaten me.

Unfortunately, spnited, they weren't trying to beat you (or me for that matter). They were trying to beat our country and they have.

It's all about your individual mindset. I've never felt unsafe due to another attack, and, aside from the gas prices -- that probably weren't a direct result from the planes crashing anyway -- I don't think my life is any different than it was seven years ago.

It's not about individual mindset. The terrorists aren't looking at you, or me or spnited and saying, "Damn, we haven't done anything to them!" They're looking at our nation as a whole and how we've reacted to 9-11 and they're laughing their asses off at us.

I agree with that. But, like spnited said, if the masses didn't ultimately gravitate toward those in charge, things wouldn't be so humorous to those looking at us. At least I don't think they would.

 

[imjustagirl]

Dyno, I don't remember that being the case, but I can't speak to it from memory as I just remember when they said it was orange it stuck out to me.

 

[spnited]

I don't know what their goals were.
I think the Bush administration is to blame for the damage to this country in the past seven years. If the terrorist attacks never happened, the current incompetents in Washington would have found some other way to screw up this country.

 

[Dyno]

Dyno, I don't remember that being the case, but I can't speak to it from memory as I just remember when they said it was orange it stuck out to me.

From DHS.gov (Dept. of Homeland Security):
http://www.dhs.gov/xinfoshare/programs/Copy_of_press_release_0046.shtm
The United States government's national threat level is Elevated, or Yellow.
The U.S. threat level is High, or Orange, for all domestic and international flights.

 

[imjustagirl]

Thanks for the info. I never knew that.

 

[Dyno]

It's what gives them an excuse to go through all your stuff and feel you up -- you know, for your safety.

 

[imjustagirl]

Um, I've never been felt up.

EDIT: at the airport.

EDIT, 2nd add: by an airport employee.

 

[bigpern23]

The terrorists might have beaten some people. They have not beaten me.

Unfortunately, spnited, they weren't trying to beat you (or me for that matter). They were trying to beat our country and they have.

It's all about your individual mindset. I've never felt unsafe due to another attack, and, aside from the gas prices -- that probably weren't a direct result from the planes crashing anyway -- I don't think my life is any different than it was seven years ago.

It's not about individual mindset. The terrorists aren't looking at you, or me or spnited and saying, "Damn, we haven't done anything to them!" They're looking at our nation as a whole and how we've reacted to 9-11 and they're laughing their asses off at us.

I agree with that. But, like spnited said, if the masses didn't ultimately gravitate toward those in charge, things wouldn't be so humorous to those looking at us. At least I don't think they would.

Agreed ... if, after 9-11, the citizens had not allowed the Bush administration to trample on our civil liberties, if it had not re-elected Bush, if they had not stood for us going to war with a country that posed no threat to us and not stood for us imprisoning "enemy combatants" without giving them some kind of due process and not stood for us becoming a nation that thumbs our nose at the Geneva Conventions and tortures people, then no, the terrorists would not be laughing.

They'd be saying, "What the hell? We blew up 3,000 of their citizens and took down some major symbols of their country and they still want to protect freedom? They still want to be just? What the ****?" And then we would have won.

But we didn't. We - as a nation, not individually - got scared and reacted exactly as the terrorists hoped we would, which is why I say they won.

I should clarify and point out that there is room to change. Hopefully, with the next election, we will win back some of our freedoms and find a balance between them and security. Hopefully, we will no longer favor torture. Hopefully, we will get back our ideals.

Let's just say we lost a few games, but we can still make the playoffs. The season ain't over yet.

 

[bigpern23]

I don't know what their goals were.

Really?

 

[Dyno]

Um, I've never been felt up.

EDIT: at the airport.

EDIT, 2nd add: by an airport employee.

I never have been either, but I have a friend who has (at the airport, by a TSA employee). I was, however, subjected to a leering "Damn, girl!" when I walked through the WTMD wearing a tight t-shirt, because they made me take my cardigan sweater off before walking through.

 

[imjustagirl]

Yeah, but you'd get that walking down the street too. :D

 

[Dyno]

Yeah, but you'd get that walking down the street too. :D

Touche!

 

[Grimace]

Osama bin Laden is laughing his ass off. He goaded us into overreacting, and it worked. He's alive, and more than 4,000 American soldiers have died fighting a country that didn't attack us and had nothing to do with the attack.

As far as did the terrorists win? Just look at the word. Their goal is to spread "terror." Hell yeah they succeeded.

 

[imjustagirl]

Can we please move this to the politics board? This has as much to do with the terrorists as I do.

 

[Dyno]

Can we please move this to the politics board? This has as much to do with the terrorists as I do.

Be careful - talk like that could get you put on a watchlist. And then you probably would get felt up - at the airport, by an airport employee. ;)

 

[imjustagirl]

Ooooh.

I mean, that would be wrong.

 

[bigpern23]

Can we please move this to the politics board? This has as much to do with the terrorists as I do.

I disagree, though the mods can feel free to put on whichever board they like, of course.

Some are disagreeing and placing the blame for our country's current state on the Bush administration, but that doesn't necessarily make it a "political" thread, anymore than discussing 'Bull Durham' would automatically belong on Sports and News. Talk about the government doesn't necessarily equal talk about politics.

I'm arguing, quite a bit, that the terrorists accomplished their goals with the attacks on 9-11. Therefore, the thread has a lot to do with terrorists.

I doesn't matter much to me where it goes, but it was not started with any intention of being a "political" thread.

PS - Well played, Dyno ... ya beat me to it. :D

 

[imjustagirl]

I didn't think it was started with that goal, pern. and I think the first post is very thoughtful and a good one.

But it was everything that followed it, that blamed the world's ills on Bush and the administration that pushed my buttons. I wish we could discuss just this rather than delve into every error of the administration.

 

[Football_Bat]

My grandpa woke up with a Toyota in his driveway, a Sony TV and Ichiro leading the AL in batting. Guess what he thought.