You make the poker decision

This is a great poker question showing where all the things that can go wrong.

The KQ off call before the flop, in my mind was horribly bad considering the size of the raise. If its only for another six or so that's one thing, but when you jack it up that much there's no way he should still be in the hand.

That being said, maybe 30 was the standard raise at the table, but for a 1-2 that seems awfully high.

I'm with Pern, you should have bet more after the flop. As Harrington puts it in his books, you really weren't able to find out anything about his hand with your bet. The smallish bet was certainly giving him the odds to call.

If he comes with you on a large bet, then you know he has something and it probably gets the two-pair out of there. If KQ then comes back over the top, let the hand go. If he calls, just check on the turn and see what he does. You run the risk of letting him have a free card, but if he called your big bet it probably isn't going to matter anyway.

After the initial bad call, KQ really played this hand perfectly. Any raise and it chases the other hands away. You did his work for him on the flop and turn and two-pair did on the river. The raise on the river was a nice play too. By raising what he did, it almost impelled two-pair to call which is what happened.

 

If I bet 4,000 after the flop, he was calling.

Again, he already had the nut straight.

 

Yes... but you didn't know this at the time. If you thought he was chasing, you want to make it VERY difficult for him to see the next card. You do that by making him pay.

If he sticks around, then you start to get an idea of what you're up against, as others have said.

 

That's the point, Chef. With a bigger bet, if he calls you, you've gained information about his hand. You know he's got something good.

With a small bet, you learn nothing about his hand. He could have called $30 with middle pair or the nuts or somewhere in between. You have no idea.

You're making the mistake of looking at the end result and saying you did the right thing by betting only $30 on the flop. In poker, where odds and trends will play out differently in the short run (one hand) and the long run, the ends don't always justify the means.

With the way that particular hand went, it worked out well for you. In the long run, you played the hand incorrectly and you will cost yourself money if continually play it that way.

 

So.....should I have

A. Bet more pre-flop

B. Bet more after the flop.

C. Went all-in after the turn.

 

Fold. You screwed yourself with your weak flop and turn bets -- way too small.

 

In a $1-$2 game, I don't think you had to bet more preflop.
Your key mistake was after the flop. With $90 in the pot, the $30 isn't enough, as has been pointed out. You throw $30 in, and the next guy is getting 4-1 on his money to call, and the guy after him is getting 5-1. You're actually pricing them into the pot and expanding the range of hands they can call.
You want to limit the hands they can call.
If you bet about 80 percent of the pot or pot-size raise or overbet, you can find out who really has a shot to beat you. The next caller would only be getting about 2-1 or worse on the money. If he calls, you can put him on a smaller range of hands.

Of course, the guy called 15 times the big blind with the KQ, so he obviously was really in the mood to gamble on the hand. A guy in that mindset might have called a pot-sized bet on the come post-flop.

 

I like the bet pre-flop. It was a healthy raise that, in all honesty, should have scared away K-Q off (though I'm not sure how loose your game was playing).

On the flop, as first to act, you should have probably made at least close to a pot-sized bet. In this case, you could have gone anywhere from $70-$90 to scare away the garbage draws.

After that, it's all about your reads and you can go in any number of directions.

From the sound of it, two pair would have called $90, at which point, KQ would have smooth called. After that, you probably want to check and see what they do. If either raises (which would presumably put you all in) you can get away from the hand if you have the correct read, but it would be tough.

Truthfully, I would guess that the eight didn't make anyone a straight on the turn, so I would probably put any bettor on either two-pair or a weaker set and I would go broke. There's only two hands that can beat you and you have to figure it's not likely anyone would have put in $120 on Q-9. So KQ is the only hand you're really going to be worried about in that spot.

KQ is a hand someone could easily call with, but again, you'd have to make a great read to put someone on that exact hand and make that laydown. With that hand, exactly as it played out, I'd probably go broke unless I had a reliable tell on the other guy.

As I said, though, not knowing what the other two have, you're going to make more money than you'll lose by playing it that way in the long run.

 

Well put, Buck.

 

Buck's advice is sound, but I still say anything that gets you out of a crack hand like that with chips in front of you is a good play.

 

I would count that hand as one of my top 3 or 4 best lay-downs.

I remember screaming at the dealer (in my mind) to PAIR THE FUCKING BOARD!

 

Bet more after the flop, but NOT gone all-in. The point I was making in my first response, which was made more clearly by those after me, was if K-Q would have called or raised a big flop bet by you, you would KNOW he wasn't chasing and he likely had K-Q. Then, checking at the turn and likely getting a big bet from him, it is el foldo.

Would you have "saved money"? Likely not, because as it has been said as well, you were in a hand you likely couldn't have gotten away from. If anything, you lost the least you could have given his smooth call at the flop. I woulda pushed back and made you lose BIG with trip Aces.

rb