Wisconsin's governor: Protest end of labor contracts, I'm dragging out the Guard

We always hear about how "socialist" other western democracies are. And how people have to - gasp! - wait in long lines at the doctor's office.

What is the wealth gap like in those countries?

 

Yeah, but they're not controlled economies like the dictatorships of the Middle East. And the market is not controlled to the degree that it is in China.

I'm just saying that giving government greater control of the economy is likely to lead to greater wealth inequality.

Government contracts, monopolies, government granted tax benefits, and regulations will only fuel greater wealth to companies & individuals with close ties to the government.

 

You can't make a blanket statement like that.

There are thousands of responsible, sound economic redistributive models that would close the wealth gap.

We have an open democracy where political actors are held accountable for their policy decisions. Comparing that to a Middle Eastern dictatorship is about as disingenuous as it gets.

 

But the employee's wages haven't really changed in that time. The wealth inequality hasn't come from the non-rich getting poorer, it's just that they've made absolutely no gains during that time while the rich have gotten monumentally richer.

Not sure how that changes the point any, I just think it's important to know exactly what we are dealing with.

 

I didn't mean to compare us to them. I was trying to draw a distinction.

Our system is better than theirs (obviously), and, as a result, we have less wealth inequality than them.

They're obviously the extreme example, but giving the government more and more control of the economy is moving in the wrong direction if wealth equality is what you are trying to achieve.

We also should not be so ashamed of our wealth. The difference between the rich and the poor isn't as important as the "wealth" of our "poor" is.

Our "poor" are better off than the poor in most every other nation.

And, by nearly every measure, the "poor" in America are better off now than they were in the '50's (or any other period you want to look at).

If the complain is that the 'rich" have gotten too rich, well that's just more class warfare.

The opportunities to move between poor and rich have also never been better than they are now.

 

No, it’s not. This is not something that can be covered by a blanket statement like that. Again: It is sound economics that government should act as a corrector of market inefficiencies, which exist because wealthy parties are able to impose externalities on less wealthy parties and don’t have to internalize those costs themselves. They should have to internalize the costs. Sound policy ensures that they do. The government isn’t controlling the economy - it is smoothing out the kinks. If political actors do a poor job smoothing out the kinks, the voters will remove them. If they use unconstitutional means to smooth out the kinks, the courts will check them.

You are just framing the issue to your advantage. It isn’t “just more class warfare.” There are Nobel Prize-winning economists (I bet everyone on this thread could name one of them off the top of his or her head) who will explain to you why the opposite of what you say is true: Social problems result not from the “wealth of the poor,” but from the wealth gap, regardless of how well off our poor are compared to those in some third-world shit hole.

Exhibit A: We have, by many multiples, more people in prison than any other comparable nation.

 

Rep. Keith Ellison calls on Obama to visit Wisconsin

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50099.html#ixzz1FBogxoGb

The lawmaker said he thinks the president is 'waiting to see which way the wind blows.'


A liberal congressman is calling on President Barack Obama to travel to Wisconsin and to speak out more on the labor protests happening in Madison.

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said Wednesday night on MSNBC that Obama “should come to Wisconsin and stand with the workers.” The co-chairman of the House Progressive Caucus, Ellison added that he would “of course … like to hear more from President Obama” about the efforts of Gov. Scott Walker and Republican legislators to push through a bill that would limit collective bargaining for most state employee unions.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50099.html#ixzz1FBoa8Jvb

“The fact is, is that it’s working people who are going to be pounding for him in a couple of years,” Ellison said, referring to the 2012 campaign. “It’s working people whose policies that we elected him to pursue, and so, I think it’s only sensible that he would stand on the side of labor at this time.”

Ellison told Capitol Hill reporters on Wednesday morning that Walker was “basically taking on the role of a dictator” in his handling of the ongoing Badger State controversy. “He says he won’t negotiate. That is something that is not in the spirit of a public servant, who just won’t even talk. He is putting himself in a position of being extreme, radical and reckless. And he’s going to fail.”

On MSNBC, Ellison said he thought Obama had decided to stay out of the fray on Wisconsin because of “presidential politics.”

Though he “want to be fair to the president,” Ellison said, “more statements would be very welcome.”

Obama has no plans to travel to Wisconsin — he was just there last month to sell his State of the Union message — but Vice President Joe Biden and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis are set to meet with AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka at the White House on Thursday.

 

I think that what people mostly bemoan is that it's much less likely that someone can graduate high school and spend the next 30 years working in a factory or on an assembly line. Many of those jobs have gone away and they aren't coming back.

But, this has been the case for a while now and anyone who hasn't recognized it hasn't been paying attention.

But, their are also many more opportunities available now. And, much if it boils down to the advice I'v given on other threads, you need to have a marketable skill. You need to be an expert in something.

I took a tour of a local distillery last night that's owned by a husband and wife. The husband learned how to distill from his grandfather growing up in Germany.

I know people who are making a living roasting coffee, brewing beer, butchering animals, running restaurants, and repairing various equipment.

In each instance, they've leveraged a skill, and expertise, to build their careers.

If you expect to go to high school, or even college, and not acquire specific skills that will help you in your career, yeah, you're probably going to have a hard time maintaining a middle class lifestyle (especially what we've come to define middle class as today).

 

Stunning lack of diversity in that crowd. Where are the minorities?

A Tea Party rally looks diverse compared to that group.

Where is the media criticism of these mostly white "whine fests"?

 

MSNBC Anchor Bashes Obama For Not Supporting Wisconsin Unions President Barack Obama’s response to labor protests in Wisconsin hasn’t been forceful enough for many political leaders in his party, but what’s likely the most scathing critique the president’s received for his actions (or lack thereof) came earlier today via MSNBC’s Cenk Uygur. Uygur lambasted Obama for not showing more solidarity with the workers – even though back when he was running for president, he vowed he would.

Indeed, for Obama the most damning segment was a clip Uygur played of him campaigning in 2007, in which Obama said the following:

“If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain, when I’m in the White House I’ll put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself – I’ll walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States of America.”

Aside from wondering why Obama was seemingly having such a difficult time finding a suitable pair of shoes, Uygur criticized him for not voicing enough words of support for workers, either…as well as White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, whose remarks about everyone needing to “live within their means” he called indistinguishable from Republican talking points.

Uygur with some harsh words for a perceived unwillingness to lead:

“He’s never gonna put on those walking shoes. He’s not gonna get out there and lead. That’s not what he does; it’s not who he is. He’s a careful, calculating politician.”

Video of the critiques of Obama, via MSNBC.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cenk-uygur-obama-wisconsin-unions/

 

"We are at war!"

-- shrieking woman at Missouri rally.


I thought we were going to get away from that kind of rhetoric.

 

This is what we get for electing a law professor/community activist president. Where are you Mr. President!!??? 100,000 people in Wisconsin every weekend, and radio silence from DC.