1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why I Defaulted on My Student Loans

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Ahem ... you seem to be conveniently forgetting some other parties who entered into this agreement in good faith. Like, say, the taxpayers who were forced to underwrite the damn loans in the first place.
     
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Congress is more than welcome to alter the incentives framework.
     
  3. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Sure, but that's not exactly addressing the libertarian objection is it?
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) I agree with what you said about him responding to incentives and making a choice. Which is what I said in my post -- he made a choice. It's not a matter of what I want him to do. What my post did say is that no matter how much he rationalizes his decisions, the actual effect (in a free lending market) would be to make it more expensive for everyone else to borrow -- people like him should drive up default risk and make it more costly for others. It's not the blather he wrote. The rest? I'd love to change the government interference I posted about in the student loan market that has created a Frankenstein mess and has saddled our country with yet more debt and skyrocketing costs for education. Unfortunately, my voice is only so loud.

    2) I'm not self-righteous, and libertarian is a term you throw around on here when I post. I haven't called myself that -- or anything else. I am posting my opinion. Rather than trying to always chararacterize me (or in your case mischaracterize me, more often than not) why not just read what I think and respond to what I had to say?

    3) John Paulson's donation to Harvard -- and that thread -- has zero to do with this thread.
     
  5. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    You're not a libertarian? Really?
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I don't really have a need to characterize myself -- not to mention that I have no clue what Dick, or anyone else, believes a "libertarian" is. Apparently to him, a "libertarian" is someone who believes that people are justified in breaching loan agreements they voluntarily entered into. I believe the opposite, actually. So I guess I am not a libertarian. If I borrow money from someone, my personal feeling is that I have a responsibility to make every effort I can to pay back the principal and interest and otherwise meet the terms I agreed to in return for the money I wanted.

    I obviously believe in some principles that paint how I feel about a lot of things. But it's not about a label or being put into a cookie cutter box. It's about *my* beliefs. And when these kinds of threads come up, I am not shy about posting what *I* believe. It's easy enough to just respond to what I actually say, not to whatever label you want to stick on me, or whatever unrelated thing you want to drag onto the thread that has nothing to do with what I posted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  7. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Maybe if people don't pay back their loan, the university will erase their name off their records?

    Seriously, it's what you're supposed to do.
     
  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    The school has already been paid.

    Again, I liken this to a coaching contract with a buyout. You take on an obligation. Should you break that obligation, there are set consequences. If the obligations are more burdensome than the consequences, elect the consequences.

    A lot of you see this as a moral quandary. It's a business decision.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I do see theft as a moral issue. I certainly don't see stealing money to pay for something you want as a business decision. Even if I reasonably think I can get away with stealing something without having to suffer any consequences, I don't do it. It gets back to the tried-and-true, "I wouldn't want someone stealing from me (for obvious reasons), so I shouldn't do that to another." The fact that most people behave that way is what keeps us from anarchy.

    When you default on a loan because you don't have the ability to repay, it's one thing. But the NY Times guy had the ability to repay what he borrowed and promised to make good on. And made a choice not to. If that isn't a moral issue, I don't know what is. To default on a loan because you don't want to pay it back--whatever his millions of justifications--is theft, plain and simple. There may or may not be consequences -- the moral hazard created by government interference in the student loan market has made it so there probably won't be for lots of people who do the same thing he did. But if you live your life doing cost-benefit analyses to make all of your decisions -- and justify the things you do as "business decisions -- you can justify anything, including theft. If you could rob a bank with absolute certainty that you wouldn't get caught or suffer any consequences, would you do it?
     
    BurnsWhenIPee likes this.
  10. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Has the principle of good faith in contractual relationships been rendered meaningless?
     
    BurnsWhenIPee likes this.
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    To some degree it has in practice -- that is what happens when moral hazard is introduced by populist-driven policy that screws up a market a contractual relationship takes place in. Such as student loans.

    But the idea of good faith and fair dealing hasn't gone anywhere.

    And that really is a moral question, because the implied covenant comes down to people having a responsibility to deal with each other honestly and fairly.

    It's kind of the "do unto others as you would have then do unto you" doctrine.
     
  12. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    While I wouldn't do this unless I had no choice, I don't have a problem with others doing it.

    The same folks who get all moral when individuals do this have no issues with corporations acting in the same manner. I guess corporations are people only when they contribute to candidates.

    Colleges are to blame in a large part for this. They make it easy (and necessary) to get the loans, do little or nothing to counsel students financially and aren't the ones left holding the bag if students default.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page