Who is the greatest? Which sport is the toughest to judge?

Aside from thinking it would be a fun debate, that is the question that got me to start this thread in the first place.

 

Just my opinion on hockey, but here is my basic argument -- Goalie is a radically different position than the five others; defensemen have different jobs than the forwards; the average fan really can't tell what makes a great defensive move from an ordinary one; professional hockey was a very exclusive league for almost three decades so whose to say how a third-liner than would compare to most starters now. Yes, stats are very prevalent in hockey, but I will semi quote Terry Sawchuck on the nature of stats when asked about his career shutout streaks. Basically, a goalie can play a great game and make one mistake and not get a shutout. A forward can play a terrible game, but score the game winning goal.

Of course, I've watched a lot more hockey in my lifetime than basketball...so I am sure there are nuances of the game that I don't see there.

 

I think football players are the easiest to rank, I mean, and most of you would agree if you had just been paying attention around here......

The greatest player ever is Mean Joe Greene followed by Terry Bradshaw, Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, Franco Harris, Mike Webster, Dermonti Dawson, John Stallworth, Rod Woodson and Jerome Bettis...... :

 

You forgot Willie parker

 

Yes, and he'd be number one if we were judging runners between the tackles.......

 

You've got Woodson too low.

 

Is goaltender that much more different from the other positions in hockey than pitcher is from the position players in baseball?

As far as the "average fan" argument goes, let's assume that we are dealing with people who actually know the sport making these jugements. Of course, we will also have people who only think they know something about these sports, but why should Zag's presence on this thread be any different from the othes he posts on?

 

Let me guess, he should be No. 5 because that would make him elite? ;D

 

Somebody's crossthreading. Not sure about that, but you've got Dawson too high, too.

 

I always like Dermonti Dawson.

And as amazing as the Steelers run of coaches has been (something like this is only their third in about four decades or something) I thought the run from Webster to Dawson to Hartings at center was pretty impressive as well, though there might have been a year or two in between the transition from one to the next.

 

That is something we can agree upon, though it's veering way off topic here.

There was no break between Dawson and Hartings, though Dawson did miss parts of his final two seasons in Pittsburgh with injuries. Once he was done, they brought in Hartings to take over the position in 2001 even though he had played primarily at guard in college and with the Lions.

The Steelers had four centers, all Pro Bowlers and at least one Hall of Famer, from the time Webster became a full-time starter in 1976 (he split time with Ray Mansfield before that) until the end of Hartings' career in 2006. Then they employed a steaming pile of crap whose name I think I have blocked out in 2007. It was kind of a shock to the system to see a Steelers' center get his ass handed to him every week.

 

Yes, we are way off topic and this has become a full-blown Steelers jack but I just looked this up OOP and it is even more ridiculous (in a good way) than I thought....

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-11-16-2041221902_x.htm

From 1964-2006 -- they had only four primary starters at center and all of them were pretty fucking good - Mansfield, Webster, Dawson and Hartings.

My God, now that is as impressive of a run in that league as I can think of.