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Where are the moderate Americans?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by zeke12, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Of course we are.
    We don't torture. We use "aggressive interrogation techniques." Nor do we render people to countries that do.
    What's wrong with you people anyway?
  2. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    The Globe & Mail, normally pretty staid in their editorials, lets loose:


    The Arar tragedy has much to teach Canada, and indeed all Western democracies. This is that rare story deserving of the overused label "Kafkaesque," a story that viscerally reminds us why a civilized justice system always insists on due process, even -- especially -- in times of stress. The reason is to protect and preserve human dignity. And human dignity has a most eloquent spokesman in Maher Arar, now living quietly with his wife and two small children in Kamloops, B.C., a community that has taken him to its heart, on behalf (we wish to think) of all Canadians.
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Ah, now I get it. The soldiers weren't in an Afghan village with some children. They were with MUSLIM children. ???

    That clears it all up. Of course, most people don't see what their fuck does their religion has to do with anything. But thanks for distilling their short lives down to a nice little bigoted modifier.

    If I understand you correctly (and excuse me, I don't interpret bigots very well), all of the world's Muslims are supposed to publicly demonstrate over four dead Canadian soldiers. Never mind the fact that, 14 others died as a result of that suicide bomber, including innocent children. And the world's populations of Muslims aren't taking part in a unified demonstration publicly grieving those civilians either. Nor are the world's Christians. Or the world's Jews.

    Imagine that. Because *gasp* not everyone who practices a religion gets talking points at the beginning of the week telling them how they are supposed to react to world events. And not everyone is hyperattuned to religion as their basis for the things they get angry over.

    What the fuck is your point? You speak in broad generalizations, and use veiled language to impugn everyone who practices a religion. Why not say what your point is? There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. Why not tell me the characteristics of a Muslim, since you so freely use it as a modifier to describe individuals. Please, enlighten me. Those Afghan children: What did you calling them "Muslim children" tell me about them?

    There isn't one blueprint that has created every Muslim in the world. You'd think you'd have noticed the differences between you and your neighbor and realized that isn't how the world works. But I guess being a bigot is more comforting.

    In most Muslim countries, the populations are poor. The typical person is worrying about how he is going to feed his family, not religious doctrine. If you are tribal villager in Afghanistan, I'd imagine you've lived an incredibly hard life and you have seen incredible devastation. You probably walk around with a heavy heart because incidences of suicide bombers are a daily occurrence.

    But fuck if you'd actually look at them as people, or have as much compassion for them as you do for your Christian neighbor (who I'm sure is your 'good Christian' neighbor). The implication of half the shit you post--with your smarmy "Muslim" modifier--is that "they are just a bunch of Muslim savages." So why not enlighten me? Tell me what unifies all Muslims and makes them the unified face of evil?
  4. Ragu --
    You and I have had our disagreements hereabouts, but that's a solid post.
    Why we have decided to fight a war that depends so vitally on intelligence in the stupidest ways possible is a question that historians are going to puzzle over for decades.
  5. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Bravo, Ragu.
    Cut and paste that and post it over on the "Clerics" thread.
  6. JR

    JR Well-Known Member


    The leader of the "they're gonna kill us all" gang shows up.
  7. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Shotty -- that would be a solid topic, and maybe Ill start it.

    But for now, I'm wating for the same folks who were demanding that "moderate muslims" apologize for terrorists over on the Somali thread to call on President Bush to apologize for what happened to this guy.

    It's an open invitation for boom to rant about Canada, but I thought it was a worthwhile excercise nonetheless.
  8. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    Zeke, the whole point of this thread is silly. There's been a constant debate, among Republican leaders in the senate no less, over a lot of the shady things happening. Politicians themselves are trying to rebuke whats happening through actions, and not just words. Many Americans are fed up, and plan to offer a rebuke through the ballot box in a month and a half. There's been no example what so ever of moderate Americans sitting by idly about anything.
  9. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  10. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Oh, F_H, I agree.

    I was merely trying to point out the silliness of the congruent argument on the other thread.

    I have no doubt it will be missed by most, if not all, who perpetrated the laughable logic in the first place. But I thought it would be fun anyway.

    And Ragu, that was an excellent post. We don't always agree on things, but I enjoyed reading that.
  11. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Here's who's to blame for this: Syria, the United States and Canada.

    Here's a quote from an online discussion with Jeff Sallot, Pulitzer Prize winning Globe & Mail correspondent (he won a Pulitzer for his coverage of Kent State while at the Globe).

    "There is a hierarchy of responsibility here. Obviously, the Syrian torturers of Mr. Arar have the most to answer for. They are also the most likely to never be held to account. Civil law suits in Syria against the military don't go very far.

    Next come the Americans, who are responsible for deporting Mr. Arar. He has launched a civil action in U.S. courts but it is being tied up with appeals and issues of national security, raised by the Bush administration. The wheels of justice grind slowly in the U.S. But he has the backing of an American constitutional law group and they will push the case as far as they can.

    Then, of course, we have Canadian officials — notably RCMP officers — who first flagged Mr. Arar and his wife, Monia Mazigh, for U.S. officials as Islamic extremists and terrorist suspects. They did this without any evidence, Judge O'Connor says. His mandate was limited to examining conduct by Canadian officials. And he is strongly suggesting that the federal government owes the Arar family compensation of some sort. I suspect the Harper government will try to negotiate something.
  12. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Isn't there a way to blame terrorists?

    Or maybe Jews?
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