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What exactly is in that Fahrvergnugen, VW?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by murphyc, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    The car's power and fuel efficiency aren't being tested with emissions. From the stuff I've read, to run clean the car has to sacrifice power and fuel efficiency.
     
  2. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    VW is looking at billions in fines. Stock market stripped $15B off of their valuation, and they are looking at roughly that much in fines as well. South Korea and France have both announced that they will be testing VW's there. The EPA is going to be looking at all of their testing to see if there have been other software manipulations, sure as hell.

    It's going to be a big hit on VW.
     
  3. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Power and fuel efficiency go hand in hand ... at a given rate of fuel consumption (and driving conditions) you have X amount of power. But the testing puts the engine under various loads to see how it pollutes (for lack of a better word) when being asked to deliver X amount of power. The trimming and tuning (via the software) enables the engine to, for a time, deliver that power cleanly even with the emissions systems fully engaged. To try to pull that off long-term, however, you put a severe amount of strain on the engine, which would drastically compromise its durability.

    For gasoline engines, for example, you can make them run more cleanly (at a given level of power) by manipulating the ignition timing. Set it lower than is optimal and you get more power at a given rate of fuel consumption (because the air/fuel mixture is more highly compressed when the spark plug fires). Set it higher than is optimal and you get less power but you get a very clean burn. Trouble is, over any appreciable length of time, either of these approaches dramatically affects durability. Low timing causes the engine to run hotter than is acceptable (leading to premature valve damage). High timing places the internal engine parts under a lot more mechanical stress (leading to premature rod/bearing/ring wear or damage).

    What I've read about the VW tests is that the cheat code kicked the emission system into full gear only when the engine was actually being tested (I think the system knew a test was in progress when the crash protection systems were disabled, as they apparently are for emissions tests). Then, with the emissions system in full gear, the engine control system trimmed and tuned to maintain appropriate power/fuel efficiency so as to not raise any suspicions. This trimming/tuning would not be acceptable long-term, because engine durability would suffer substantially. And without the trimming/tuning, the engines wouldn't perform acceptably (to their owners) with the emissions systems in full gear.

    I suspect all the major manufacturers are jittery right now. I'd be very surprised if VW is the only company that's gamed the system.
     
    FileNotFound likes this.
  4. BitterYoungMatador2

    BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

    My mother informs me that in order to have the turn signal lights replaced on her 2007 Cadillac CTS they had to remove the entire front bumper cover.
     
  5. swingline

    swingline Well-Known Member

    I think we have to send our new (2013) Subaru Forester Touring edition car auto back to Japan to fix anything. And they probably have to rebuild it from scratch.
     
  6. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Holy shit, Doc! I thought you were a econ/social sciences guy! Who knew you were an engineer, too? Your first name isn't Leonardo, is it?
     
  7. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Not an engineer, but I do enjoy working on my own cars. I can't do it quite so much these days, because there's so much less a hack like me can work on. But I have actually broken down and rebuilt an engine.
     
    bigpern23 likes this.
  8. murphyc

    murphyc Well-Known Member

    Things keep getting worse for VW. Originally 482,000 cars were being talked about. Now it's up to 11 million.
    VW admits 11 mn cars have pollution cheating device

    There's an interesting subplot behind all of this. In the spring there was a big power struggle at the top VW leadership level. Many expected Winterkorn to be ousted, but instead it was Piech left on the outside. It'll be interesting to see who gets blamed with the current mess and if Winterkorn is now ousted, if Piech comes in to "save the day," or if Piech gets all of the blame.
    The Resignation of VW’s Piëch: What Happened Behind the Scenes
     
  9. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

  10. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Those 11 million cars just lost half their resell value, right?

    That's a helluva class action lawsuit coming VW's way.

    This is going to get way worse before it gets better for the folks in Wolfsburg.

    Speaking of, the Wintercorn character just won an epic power struggle with the CEO of VW -- the legendary Ferdinand Piech, credited with creating the modern-day Porsche.

    Volkswagen Chief Piech Consumed By The Fire He Started

    Edit: Well hell, in the time I was writing the post, Wintercorn was popped. Presumably, "by the fire he started."
     
  11. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    The questions nobody's asking ...

    If EPA rules are such that even a company that was publicly on-board with the Green Agenda spends time and money to get around the rules, are the EPA rules too stringent or unreasonable?

    Also, once these Volkswagens are getting 25-30 mpg instead of 40-50, how much will we be ahead in "clean" air anyway?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  12. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Not if they're not in the US. Unless the EPA now thinks it has jurisdiction world-wide.
     
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