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WAR and Cooperstown

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Gehrig, May 1, 2013.

  1. Gehrig

    Gehrig Active Member

    So of all eligible players who are currently not on an active ballot, there are 62 players who have reached 75 WAR. Every single one of them has been elected to the HOF, minus Jim McCormick and Bill Dahlen - two 19th century guys (see below).

    Here are the 60 we are dealing with:

    1. Babe Ruth+ (22) 183.8 L
    2. Cy Young+ (22) 168.4 R
    3. Walter Johnson+ (21) 165.6 R
    4. Willie Mays+ (22) 156.1 R
    5. Ty Cobb+ (24) 151.2 L
    6. Hank Aaron+ (23) 142.4 R
    7. Tris Speaker+ (22) 133.9 L
    8. Honus Wagner+ (21) 130.6 R
    9. Stan Musial+ (22) 128.1 L
    10. Rogers Hornsby+ (23) 127.0 R
    11. Eddie Collins+ (25) 124.0 L
    12. Ted Williams+ (19) 123.2 L
    13. Pete Alexander+ (20) 120.1 R
    14. Kid Nichols+ (15) 116.4 B
    15. Lou Gehrig+ (17) 112.5 L
    16. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 110.7 R
    17. Tom Seaver+ (20) 110.5 R
    18. Mickey Mantle+ (18) 109.7 B
    19. Mel Ott+ (22) 107.9 L
    20. Nap Lajoie+ (21) 107.2 R
    21. Frank Robinson+ (21) 107.1 R
    22. Mike Schmidt+ (18) 106.5 R
    23. Lefty Grove+ (17) 103.6 L
    24. Christy Mathewson+ (17) 101.8 R
    25. Joe Morgan+ (22) 100.4 L
    26. Warren Spahn+ (21) 100.1 L
    27. Jimmie Foxx+ (20) 97.4 R
    28. Phil Niekro+ (24) 96.6 R
    29. Eddie Mathews+ (17) 96.2 L
    30. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 96.0 L
    31. Cal Ripken+ (21) 95.6 R
    32. Bert Blyleven+ (22) 95.4 R
    33. Roberto Clemente+ (18) 94.3 R
    34. Cap Anson+ (27) 93.8 R
    35. Al Kaline+ (22) 92.6 R
    36. Wade Boggs+ (18) 91.0 L
    37. Gaylord Perry+ (22) 91.0 R
    38. Steve Carlton+ (24) 90.4 L
    39. Bob Gibson+ (17) 89.9 R
    40. Eddie Plank+ (17) 89.8 L
    41. George Brett+ (21) 88.4 L
    42. Tim Keefe+ (14) 86.7 R
    43 Robin Roberts+ (19) 86.0 B
    44. Fergie Jenkins+ (19) 84.9 R
    45. George Davis+ (20) 84.4 B
    46. Roger Connor+ (18) 84.2 L
    47. John Clarkson+ (12) 84.0 R
    48. Nolan Ryan+ (27) 81.8 R
    49. Rod Carew+ (19) 81.2 L
    50. Charlie Gehringer+ (19) 80.7 L
    51. Brooks Robinson+ (23) 78.4 R
    52. Dan Brouthers+ (19) 78.3 L
    53. Joe DiMaggio+ (13) 78.2 R
    54. Robin Yount+ (20) 77.1 R
    55. Ozzie Smith+ (19) 76.5 B
    56. Bobby Wallace+ (25) 76.2 R
    57. Old Hoss Radbourn+ (12) 76.0 R
    58. Paul Molitor+ (21) 75.5 R
    59. Johnny Bench+ (17) 75.2 R
    60. Sam Crawford+ (19)

    With all of the debate between analytical vs. traditional stats, I was wondering if there are any players in the list of 60 above that you feel WAR and Cooperstown were BOTH wrong about and why. Go ahead - be a rebel! Who here has an inside track/gut intuition that goes against traditional perspective and saber metrics?

    In case anybody cares - the highest ranking, eligible player not from the 19th century, not on an active ballot, and not in the HOF is Lou Whitaker with 74.8 WAR.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now: Here are the 19th century guys who met the 75 WAR criteria, but have not been elected:

    1. Jim McCormick
    2. Bill Dahlen

    Here are the guys on the ballot now who meet the 75 WAR criteria:

    1. Barry Bonds
    2. Roger Clemens
    3. Curt Schilling
    4. Jeff Bagwell

    Here are the guys not eligible for induction who meet the 75 WAR criteria:

    1. Alex Rodriguez
    2. Greg Maddux
    3. Randy Johnson
    4. Albert Pujols
    5. Chipper Jones
    6. Pedro Martinez
    7. Ken Griffey Jr.
    8. Mike Mussina
    9. Tom Glavine
    10. Pete Rose

    Any of these guys undeserving? Lets try to avoid PED issues for the sake of having beaten the dead horse so many times it came back from the dead to get beat again. Any undeserving based on raw data alone?
     
  2. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Does Nick Punto get into the Hall on the first ballot, or will some asshole writers make him wait a year?
     
  3. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Bill Dahlen will get in on the next Pre-Integration ballot, I guarantee it. He's quite deserving. Not sure if/when Jim McCormick will get in.

    As for the top 60, I'm comfortable with every single one of those guys being in. I'd probably argue that the worst players on that list are Paul Molitor and Brooks Robinson/Ozzie Smith, for very different reasons, of course. But I think all three still pass the smell test with flying colors.

    Everyone on the non-eligible/active list should be in, although I'd give the most thought to Mussina and Schilling among that group. Everyone else should be a lock.
     
  4. TGO157

    TGO157 Member

    From just reading the thread title, I thought Axl Rose had declined an induction to another Hall of Fame.
     
  5. Versatile

    Versatile Active Member

    No, you didn't.
     
  6. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Did someone declare war on the baseball Hall of Fame?
     
  7. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    Abner doubleday did
     
  8. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    That guy who loves to fart is pretty high on this list.
     
  9. Uncle.Ruckus

    Uncle.Ruckus Guest

    Mussina does not belong.
     
  10. Versatile

    Versatile Active Member

    I'd love to hear why.
     
  11. Uncle.Ruckus

    Uncle.Ruckus Guest

    Search for the last Mussina thread we have. It's on there. I'm done fighting that battle.
     
  12. Steak Snabler

    Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

    I've always thought it was interesting how Molitor just skated into Cooperstown, like it was an afterthought. I know his numbers measure up, but he was almost exclusively a DH the last 7-8 years of his career.

    He got a higher percentage of the vote than Dave Winfield, Carlton Fisk, Warren Spahn, Ernie Banks or Bob Gibson.
     
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