Torture: McCain vs. Mukasey

Torture might not work, but waterboarding did. Oh, and I guess instead of torture just popping a couple of slugs into an unarmed man's face is morally acceptable??? This "moral high ground" thing is quite vexing.

 

Yep, that long-standing tradition of certain families of holding hands with and kissing Saudi princes does get in the way of good judgment, from time to time.

 

I think it works and I am for it.

That said, John McCain has a unique insight to the matter because of what happened to him at the Hanoi Hilton. While I do not agree with him on this topic, I respect what he has to say about it a hell of a lot more than others who have spoken out against it.

 

If you think it works, would you support it for domestic suspect interrogations (non-terrorists)? Only dangerous suspects like rapists, child molesters, murderers?

 

Wouldn't that go against Miranda rights?

 

Speeding tickets, jaywalking, public urination...

 

Yes. If you believe they exist, which is murky.

I guess what I am getting at is whether, were Miranda not an obstacle, there would be any support for domestic torture of dangerous suspects.

 

As is the case, so often (Nancy Reagan re stem cell research is another stellar example), people will frequently go against type when it suits their personal interests. It largely depends on whose ox is
being gored.

 

See Obama / Holder approving Bin Laden assassination.

 

Also, Boom, there is a public safety exception to Miranda if there is an imminent threat - like a gun in plain view of children or a criminal plot that is ongoing and ready to pop. (New York v. Quarles)

 

While certainly not a perfect individual, I have a lot of respect for McCain.

But, during the earlier debate on this subject, McCain said he would expect an interrogator to break the law & do what was necessary in a "ticking time bomb" scenario.

This tells me that McCain knows "torture" can work and that the law is unworkable in all situations.

I think McCain has a lot invested in the idea that "torture" doesn't work, but I don't think his own statements back up his beliefs.

 

Also, a lot of folks seem to justify killing bin Laden by saying, "he's Osama fucking bin Laden, of course we can shoot him dead."

Well, "he was Khalid fucking Sheikh Mohammed, of course we were justified in holding his nose and pouring some water in his mouth."

Water boarding was done to three people -- three. It was done with authorization from the lawyers at the Justice Department and under strict supervision.

So, if you're going to carve out a "bin Laden" exception for his killing, how do you say another President was not justified in carving out a "KSM" exception for waterboarding?