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Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Slacker, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I didn't say people weren't thinking for themselves, though there is certainly an element of it. I also clearly acknowledged that there are Christian Democrats. The current president is one.

    I am saying that the connection between Christianity and the Republican Party is real, intentional, and undeniable among the sane.

    Regarding abortion, best not to go too far down that rabbit hole, but your use of supporter of abortion rather than supporter of choice is worth noting.
    SFIND, Baron Scicluna and Mngwa like this.
  2. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Member

    If you want to see Christian Democrats, go to an African American church. As MLK once observed, 11 am Sunday is the most segregated hour in Christian America.
    OscarMadison and 2muchcoffeeman like this.
  3. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    OK. Choice of abortion? Because that's what it comes down to. It's an individual decision, and in the end, will not make any difference what party the woman is a member of. They will be considering abortion, or not, not what political party they should be a part of.

    So, why do you think the connection between Christianity and the Republican Party is real, intentional and undeniable among the sane? Why is it occurring? Because, really, one does not necessarily mean the other. And why is it OK to be a Christian Democrat, and not a Christian Republican?

    I say there are degrees of everything, and I can prove it even using myself as an example. And there's nothing insane about it.
  4. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

  5. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    You are talking about abortion as an individual choice. I was talking about abortion as a political issue, with one side trying to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. I'll give you a hint. It isn't the Democrats. That's why it is pro-choice.

    Who said it isn't okay to be a Christian Republican? All I said was that it is ridiculous to argue that the connection isn't there or to imply it is people forcing that conversation where no connection exists.

    Actually read my previous posts. I already answered your questions in my first response to you on this topic.
    SFIND likes this.
  6. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    It exists because the GOP has loudly (and hypocritically, as it turns out) proclaimed itself the party of “traditional family values,” whatever those were, which by definition includes a specific definition of what Christianity stands for (which I suspect that neither Christ nor the Apostles would recognize).
    SFIND and Baron Scicluna like this.
  7. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

  8. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    If one couches criticism in the terms of faith, is one immune from a critical retort.
    Example: My faith tells me abortion is murder. There’s no counter argument, without delegitimization of their faith, which is not allowed.

    So if one says that my faith tells me that Donald Trump is the lowest form of life, then one is beyond reproach. My faith tells me that Sarah Huckabee is the spawn of her rapist father with whom She engages in ritual child rape and murder, I am likewise beyond reproach without questioning the legitimacy of my faith.
    OscarMadison likes this.
  9. Octave

    Octave Well-Known Member

    I don't like parties or people that/who sit in judgment of others, which the GOP has made its meal plan for at least my entire adult lifetime.
  10. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    The fun really happens when one points out that there are certain religions, like Reformed Judaism, that support a woman’s right to choose abortion.

    Then the anti-abortionist is stuck between defending their beliefs or being told they are anti-Semitic.

    It’s also fun to point out to the simpletons who believe that any criticism of Israel for its policies is anti-Semitism is that Israel permits women to have abortions; albeit they typically have to go to a committee to ask for (and are usually granted), permission.
  11. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Somehow I don’t think that the anti-abortionists care if they are called Anti-Semitic. I’d rather think they would be Proud, boy.

    and I agree that certain criticism of Israeli
    Policy is not anti-Semitism. Though many anti-Semites use Israeli-Palestinian issues as a cover to spout their anti-semitism. It’s a cover for them. No one blames Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt for abandoning the West Bank, Gaza and North Israel for abandoning the Palestinians who were Jordanian, Egyptian and Lebanese before 1967 & 1973.

    But the Christian Right seems to have no problem with wearing and carrying firearms with impunity, unless those doing it are urban minorities. Then it’s rampant criminal behavior. Even though most the urban gun shot murders are revenge for prior crimes, vigilantism. Or Pre-emotive self defense. Which is what the Christian Right proclaim their second amendment rights, from God, are for.
  12. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    I've pulled this out of the Trump political thread -- a post I did from 2016 -- because it best attempts to explain my thoughts on this, in a way that I think also applies to this thread.

    That post was in response to a thought by former poster old_tony, who wrote: I fully believe there are millions -- tens of millions of religious Democrats. I wonder how they reconcile that with the obviously anti-religious stances of their party, such as murdering babies.

    My post responding to that:

    Here's how:

    People sometimes make personal decisions and choices -- ones that don't always fully align with black-and-white political beliefs. (Which says something about how maybe political beliefs can't, and should not always be, black and white, of course. But that's another post/thread).

    For example, I'm a Democrat by political affiliation -- for the most part. And that is key. Just as in BTE's re-worked example, a person may be Republican, and yet, if not exactly OK with it, still able to live with, participating in wars and supporting the rights of gun ownership and use, no matter what.

    But, if I were, say, trying to make a decision about whether to have an abortion, I would, in that instance, become more Christian than Democrat, and probably not do it. (And, I suspect, this is how it is for most Democrats). With regard to war, I personally would say/think that it would depend on the circumstances. I do think that there are some values/issues worth dying for and protecting, even with our lives, if needed. So, in that instance, I might suddenly become more political, and even, Republican, than I am Christian, or even Democrat.

    Someone else might make different decisions/choices in such instances. There is a difference between the personal and the political, and often, that difference won't truly manifest itself until someone is impacted directly instead of just influenced intellectually.

    That's a large part of the problem with politics, and our political threads, actually, and why we have so many problems on them. The personal/political conflict seems to make compromise impossible, or, if not impossible, then at least unlikely, because appearances matter to us, sometimes more than anything.

    This is added, tonight: This is why I just don't buy into hard and fast party lines, and, rightly or wrongly, I sometimes get surprised they are so hard and fast. They seem, frankly, artificial to me., and, of course, divisive. They're also unnecessary and a large part of the problems in our government these days. More bipartisan-ism could go a long, long way.
    OscarMadison and Neutral Corner like this.
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