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The Seedy Underbelly of Debt Collection

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Songbird, Aug 16, 2014.

Page 3 of 5
  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Why did you put debt in quotation marks, SpeedT? You are either in debt or you're not. You should know who you borrowed money from, how much and under what terms.
    2) If you paid off a debt, you should easily beable to prove that you paid it, between bank statements (or a receipt, under the unlikely scenario that you walked cash over) and duplicate bills. Why are you in a position of trying to prove something that you think is unprovable?

    The one thing in the story in the original link that made me shake my head was the woman who handed over her bank account info to someone on the phone for them to deduct money. I blame her for being so foolish almost as much as I do the person who ripped her off. I can't understand why someone would hand over money to someone without documentation in writing that they actually own your debt and a receipt that documents who you paid, what the payment was for and how they can be reached.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 20, 2014
    #25
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Because some debt collectors flat-out threaten people with arrests and lawsuits, or worse, and they end up getting frightened enough to hand over their personal info. Not everyone is educated about the law, and what is allowed and not allowed. If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it.
     
    Baron Scicluna, Aug 20, 2014
    #26
  3. GilGarrido

    GilGarrido Active Member

    On a related note, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised any more by the number of ads there are on cable channels for services to help those who owe $10,000 or more to the IRS. Seems like someone who is that heavily in debt would use discretionary money to pay down debt rather than paying for cable. There must be a lot of people who don't, though, or these wouldn't be so many ads.
     
    GilGarrido, Aug 20, 2014
    #27
  4. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    I can't decide if this is incredibly patronizing, incredibly dumb, or both.
     
    RickStain, Aug 20, 2014
    #28
  5. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    Nothing, apparently, gets in the way of cellphones or cable TV. Nothing.
     
    Riptide, Aug 21, 2014
    #29
  6. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Thankfully, I have an Obama Phone equipped with DirectTV so I have to worry about neither.
     
    Double Down, Aug 21, 2014
    #30
  7. DeskMonkey1

    DeskMonkey1 Active Member

    Back in the late 80/early 90s, my inlaws got into financial trouble due to no fault of their own (a flood, plus being screwed over by a business partner/(friend soon after). They finally got out of it but the IRS came calling a few years later saying they didn't pay taxes during that time. They did but the bank had purged its records from however many years prior to that a few years later. They were on the brink of jail until a rich uncle paid it off.

    The scenario isn't exactly the same but I'm very sympathetic when someone says they have paid a debt but still get harassed (assuming I have reason to believe them)
     
    DeskMonkey1, Aug 21, 2014
    #31
  8. SpeedTchr

    SpeedTchr Well-Known Member

    Since it was asked, here goes --
    I had a relatively small student loan in the '80s, and made regular payments until I was very close to paying it off. Between the antepenultimate and penultimate payments, the loan (paper) was sold on.

    I received notice that I owed four times as much as my records showed (according to those coupon books they used back then to track payments). I called the new loan/paper owners and told them I only owed $X, but they insisted it was 4 x $X according to their records. I sent them proof of payments (canceled checks) but they said their records didn't agree.

    To have sued them would have cost at least that 4 x $X they insisted I owed them, which I of course couldn't possibly afford. I pissed and moaned at them about it for a while and then got a letter saying the loan/paper had been sold on to yet another party. Hardheaded and broke is a bad combination, so this is still festering years later.

    I know, I know, I should have just kept quiet and sent each one the amount they said I owed. It's just money, and the lenders are never wrong..
     
    SpeedTchr, Aug 22, 2014
    #32
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Why would you have sued them? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Make them prove that you owe them the debt.
     
    Baron Scicluna, Aug 22, 2014
    #33
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Exactly. It is nothing more than someone you don't know, and have never done any business with, calling or writing you asking for money. Big deal. It's not like you are in the unfortunate position of trying to get back money that someone stole from you. The money is still in your pocket. If they think they have a legitimate claim against you, the onus is on them to prove it, not you to prove that you don't. Otherwise they are chasing their tails. Typically, they are not going to pursue it beyond a few phone calls -- they are looking for low-hanging fruit.

    Get an address and immediately send whoever called a letter saying their claim is false. If they refuse to give you an address or keep calling you (legally someone can't harass you after you tell them to stop), send an e-mail to your state's attorney general and ignore any future calls -- the way you'd ignore any annoying stranger calling and asking you for money for no reason.

    If they want to pursue it, the onus is on them to prove you owe them a debt, not you. If they report false data to any of the credit reporting agencies (unlikely. ... they might threaten, but they likely won''t follow through; too much work), you can deal directly with the agencies -- again, the onus is on the collector to prove its accuracy.

    It might end up being a huge hassle for you to deal with, if it gets to that, but if someone is hitting you up for money, the fact that the money is in your pocket, not theirs, puts you in the driver's seat. Treat it like any other phone call from a stranger trying to hit you up for money.

    If they are calling about a legitimate debt, don't give your financial information to a stranger on a phone. Ask for a written notice that includes the name of the creditor, their address and phone number, the source of the debt, and instructions for how to proceed -- including how you should proceed if you don't think you owe them money. Don't deal with it until you have those things in hand.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 22, 2014
    #34
  11. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    As I sit here and ponder my perfect life, I can't help but wonder if perhaps you actually owed what they said. Here's how I get there:

    1) As you say this disagreement went down 25-odd years ago, I'm thinking the interest rate for this loan would have been pretty high (seeing as how the loan was taken out maybe 30 or 35 years ago). Depending on the type of loan it was, the rate could have been 8%, 10%, even higher.

    2) Your say your understanding of where you stood on the loan was informed by those coupon books. Yet those assume perfectly on-time payments throughout the life of the loan. If routinely you paid "not late" but not right on time ...

    3) By the time you got to your last couple of payments, the amount you still owed could have been substantially different from what those coupon books said. This happens all the time, but if a high interest rate is in play, the difference can be substantial.

    Around that time I recall making a "last payment" on the one new car I've ever bought and being chagrined to find that I had the equivalent of two payments left. Put quite a damper on that night's celebration.

    Now, keep in mind that I'm sitting here basking in my perfect life, but based on what you've provided here, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that your battle had nothing to do with your loan's being sold.

    My broader point about the inadvisability of prohibiting the selling of loans was that prohibiting such likely would make those loans scarcer (and/or more expensive). The lender's ability to sell under-/non-performing loans for even a token amount makes that lender, on the margin, more willing to extend credit and/or more lenient with the terms of that credit.
     
    doctorquant, Aug 22, 2014
    #35
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    His post made it sound as if he wasn't in default on a loan, but instead he was close to making his final payments and got notified that someone else now owned his debt and they wanted more than he actually owed.

    If he was in default -- and the terms he had agreed to assigned a higher interest rate, and or penalties, for a default, then yeah, those are the terms he agreed to.

    From what he put in his post, though -- that he provided proof (cancelled checks) he had already paid on the term of the loan they were trying to collect for, I assumed that wasn't the case.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 22, 2014
    #36
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