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The rules are the rules

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by The Big Ragu, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I'm against most of the rules too.
     
  2. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    In my town, she would have an easy-peasy solution.

    Several of the local churches are equipped with commercial kitchens and they're renting out space, or letting people use them for free to make and sell various foodstuffs.

    An 11 year old would easily qualify for the free space and she could sell cupcakes to her heart's content without fear of the man shutting down the business.

    A town as big as St. Louis should have some similar options.
     
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Yeah. That would probably work just fine.

    I'm sure the 11-year-old could just commute to her after school job. It's not like her parents would want to keep an eye on her.
     
  4. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    You didn't answer the question. At what age/revenue would you deem enforcement to be appropriate? At one end of the spectrum we have "65-year-old who mixes moonshine in his bathtub." At the other end we have "Five-year-old who mixes lemonade in a cooler." You'll agree that health inspectors are necessary parts of the bureaucracy (if not, read Upton Sinclair). So at what threshold should they start inspecting? I'd argue states should act as California and Oklahoma recently have and pass legislation allowing the operation of home-kitchen-based businesses provided A) consumers are aware the business is operated out of the home and thus is not subject to commercial-grade health inspections and, B) business operators are aware of the liability risk.
     
  5. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    What rules are you against?

    Food safety? Workplace safety? Non misleading labelling? Drug regulations?
     
  6. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    After a few hundred people die from tainted cupcakes, Our God The Market will show people that they're no good. No need for government regulation.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Market factors?

    A market would look like this: She bakes cupcakes and tries to sell them. People assess for themselves the benefits (or risks) of buying and eating cupcakes baked by an 11-year-old in her mom's kitchen. If she makes cupcakes that taste good, perhaps she makes some money. Apparently she found a market for her cupcakes -- for whatever reasons people were willing to buy them. If her cupcakes don't taste good or they get people sick from eating them, she shouldn't expect repeat customers and she won't make any money.

    Roadblocks that the local government throws up to prohibit her (and people who want to buy her cupcakes) from doing a transaction that simple don't count as "market factors." They are hindrances to the marketplace for what she is offering and for which there was demand.

    For what it is worth, she doesn't compete directly with "Crave The Cup." She is not running a restaurant or a shop. It's an irrelevant thing to bring into your discussion of her, anyhow. If you want to discuss "Crave The Cup," we can certainly look at any ridiculous road blocks or regulations that hinder its ability to run an honest business. Just as we were discussing what I think is the silliness of a "rules is rules" bureaucracy stopping a kid from selling cupcakes into the demand she found for them.

    The suggestion that we need to stop an 11-year-old from selling cupcakes she makes in her mom's kitchen, in order to protect "Crave the Cup," -- which is what I think you just did -- is the the type of hindrance (and in practice, those kinds of regulations are nearly always bought-for examples of corruption) that keep ACTUAL "market factors" from allowing a mix of goods and services that people sell into a the demand for them.

    That corruption (at worst) or mindless regulation (at best), drives up the cost of things creating an economic drag, and it denies some people things they would enjoy buying at the market price they are willing to pay.
     
  8. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    John Stossel:

    Most people believe that without government meat inspection, food would be filthy. We read The Jungle, Upton Sinclair's depiction of the meatpacking business, and assume that the FDA and the Food Safety and Inspection Service are all that stand between us and E. coli. Meatpacking conditions were disgusting. Government intervened. Now, we're safe! A happy ending to a story of callous greed.

    The scheming lawyers behind the "Food Poisoning Bulletin" argue that without regulation companies will "cut corners." After all, they say, sanitation costs money, so lack of regulation "creates a competitive disadvantage for companies that want to produce quality products."

    But that's bunk. It's not government that keeps E. coli to a minimum. It's competition. Tyson Foods, Perdue and McDonald's have brands to maintain—and customers to lose. Ask Jack in the Box. It lost millions after a food-poisoning scandal.

    Fear of getting a bad reputation makes food producers even more careful than government requires. Since the Eisenhower administration, our stodgy government has paid an army of union inspectors to eyeball chickens in every single processing plant. But bacteria are invisible!

    Fortunately, food producers run much more sophisticated tests on their own. One employs 2,000 more safety inspectors than government requires: "To kill pathogens, beef carcasses are treated with rinses and a 185-degree steam vacuum," an executive told me. She also asked that I not reveal the name of her company—it fears retaliation from regulators.

    http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/05/food-bunk
     
  9. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Yes, we understand the Market Deity argument. Thanks, Reason.com, for putting it into far too many words.
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    JR asked.

    Independent/trade organizations could regulate if the public demanded it. We already see this in other industries.
     
  11. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    The answer couldn't be, "It's both," could it?

    There was competition in the days of "The Jungle," too, but once all the competitors realized it was cheaper to not care about food safety, none of them did.
     
  12. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    I can't decide whether this is naive bullshit, right wing corporate propaganda or just the good old Appeal to Authority fallacy

    The idea that companies always act ethically is bizzaro naive.
     
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