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"The Force Awakens" (with SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Dick Whitman, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    You would think they'd have dropped some foreshadow in this movie, though. Nothing.

    She's Luke's, I think
  2. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Rey escaping on the Millennium Falcon doesn't qualify as a foreshadow? It makes total sense.

    Twins historically run in families. Rey takes over as pilot of the Falcon alongside Chewie, as her father before her.

    Jedi are supposed to be celibate because temptation leads to all that shit Yoda talks about in Episode II. Given what Luke's been through (with no pussy prospects in the trilogy), he isn't going to mess around. So he's not having any kids, he's just the crazy uncle teaching that Force shit.
    BDC99 likes this.
  3. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Also, I love that they referred to the new bigger, badder Death Star as a "Starkiller," which, IIRC, was supposed to be Luke's last name in George Lucas's first drafts of "Star Wars."
    BDC99 and spikechiquet like this.
  4. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I'm not too into the EU stuff. But I've read Wookieepedia enough to know Luke eventually married Mara Jade and had a son named Ben - after Kenobi. Ben was actually raised by Han and Leia, because his parents were off doing Jedi business together. Also, the Solos had twins in the EU - one of which becomes a Sith master like his grandpa.

    Put that into a blender and we might have a twisted version of the new trilogy.
    heyabbott likes this.
  5. Mr. Sunshine

    Mr. Sunshine Well-Known Member

    I didn't know about this jedi celibacy thing. Does that mean you can get laid if you go over to the dark side? If so, that's a HUGE selling point, no?
    Neutral Corner, BDC99 and schiezainc like this.
  6. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Ever since the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm they made a huge deal about how they were NOT going to be bound by the EU, they were going to come up with all-new storylines -- yet they ended up lifting the hoariest, most cliched, must predictable EU plot point of all ... AND they partially negated the most pivotal, most climactic moment of the first six movies: Luke's once-and-for-all kiss-off of the Emperor.
    That's now been asterisked: "You've failed, your highness ... well, mostly. I'll never turn to the Dark Side ... but my nephew might."

    So basically now Luke's big speech is another jacking-off-into-the-wind moment.

    When they brought in JJ, they should have told him, "do whatever you want with the script and storyline, but the Skywalker/Solo family remains fundamentally good from here on out. Luke's battle and Anakin's redemption means something. You're supposed to be a great scriptwriter; prove it. Come up with some other protagonists and have THEM fall to the Dark Side."
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2015
  7. Bradley Guire

    Bradley Guire Well-Known Member

    How meta is the Adam Driver/Kylo Ren situation? This guy has to play the grandson of Darth Vader. His character is immature. He's a little boy who emmulates gramps to the point that he wears black and wears a helmet. He's so insecure that he won't be as great as pappy, and it's something opponents can use to taunt him. But the actor in real life is also going to be compared to the legend of Vader and must feel some pressure to make this character just as iconic, lest he wind up a foot note like Darth Maul.

    Some guesses about stuff ...

    Snoke: What if he's not a hologram, but a Sith holocron? Or what if he's Darth Plagieus (the wise)? What if I read too many EU novels?

    Rey: She's Luke's kid. Jedi or not, he wasn't trained in the old style. The old rules are gone. Who's to say he didn't marry and have a kid? Han and Leia have Ben. Luke and someone had Rey. But if Ben turned and slaughtered the new Jedi order, means he could have killed Luke's wife/Rey's mom/his aunt. Luke disappeared in grief and hid his daughter from Snoke and Ben, now going by Kylo Ren.

    I'm not putting much thought into it beyond that. Just a guess. The biggest problem of fandoms (franchises, wrestling, etc.) is that they "fantasy book" or come up with scenarios in their heads that are logical, grow attached, then get mad when the next story isn't what they envisioned. Then they judge the content not on its merits but that it's not what they wanted. I do not envy the creative teams.
    heyabbott and cyclingwriter2 like this.
  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    The biggest criticism, here and by critics, is that the plot is too similar to "A New Hop," and the overall sweep of the first six movies. But it's by design. They are anchoring the audience in a "Star Wars" trilogy, and there are certain beats to hit. If you don't want to hit them, start s new epic from scratch.

    It's fair if that doesn't work for some. I thought the "Starkiller" weapon was too much - they just needed to give Poe and the control room something to do.

    But it doesn't mean they were bereft of creative ideas. They are making you care about the journey of all new characters in a familiar environment. It's a tough balancing act.
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I saw a good point made in a review that Han Solo's death was really the first that ever meant anything in "Star Wars" for the good guys from the original trilogy. They never sacrificed anything. Even Obi-Wan warns Darth Vader that if he strikes him down, he will come back stronger and more powerful, which he does. They should have had Lando die blowing up the Death Star, but I guess it might have tempered the triumph at the end from a movie-making standpoint.
  10. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    I don't think Luke's nephew turning to the Dark Side negates in any way his journey from the original trilogy. He didn't say, "You've failed your highness. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me, and so are all members of my immediate and extended family who may or may not currently exist now and forever after ..."

    And the problem with creating another protagonist who must be introduced and then seduced by the Dark Side is that you're then simply aping Episodes I-III.

    Ren gives the new trilogy a good jumping off point without having to waste a lot of time showing his seduction.
  11. Mr. Sunshine

    Mr. Sunshine Well-Known Member

    The real reason Ren turned to the Dark Side:

  12. Madhavok

    Madhavok Well-Known Member

    Saw it yesterday and god damn was it a fun ride. Yes, it's very close to 'ANH' and I was fine with it. As someone mentioned before, as the script was scrolling and we learn Luke was trying to setup a new Jedi Order - that was his path from ROTJ. Also as someone mentioned - as the saga continues, JJ has to blend the Star Wars fanatics and a new audience in a fantasy world that near and dear to a lot of people. I think he did a good job and was fine with it being close to ANH.

    Loved all of the easter eggs to the original trilogy.
    Kylo Ren was great. I'm glad he wasn't killed off.
    But - this WHOLE TIME R2 had the rest of the map and was just in a low power status and 3PO knew all of this?
    Kind of thought Finn's turn to good was a bit rushed.
    Movie was typical JJ - constant, not much down time. Loved it.
    I only saw one of JJ's friends make an appearance - Grungberg from Alias. But looking at the cast now, Pegg was in it too.
    Rey was amazing.
    Finally, the lightsaber battle. Loved it. In the prequels the battles were so clean and fast. This was between people with little to no training and it showed. I wish there were some explanation about Ren's lightsaber though. It just felt raw and not clean like a typical one. Like he engineered it.
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