The Dark Knight Rises. There be SPOILERS here.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Maybe it ends with Bruce Wayne paralyzed and retired, and in a few years we get a film version of "Batman Beyond".

Agree with you and others that it's going to be hard to turn the Knightfall arc into a single movie. There were so many facets to that thing, and the entire storyline was so damn long (almost two years, IIRC) that you really need two movies to pull it all together.
Bane breaking Batman's back was really just the end of act one. If they're following this arc, and it looks like they are, they're going to have to jump into this thing full throttle. Hour one is Knightfall, hour two is Bruce Wayne's journey back, the last 30 minutes are him regaining the mantle of the bat (likely from some random new character who fills the Azrael role). It's hardly Nolan's style with these films, which means it's going to be an incredible thrill ride or a total train wreck.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

All that with Catwoman thrown in? Ugh. No way in hell they can pull that off.

Maybe they'll go the Batman: The Animated Series route and make it look like Bane is about to break Batman's back, but have him somehow escape at the last minute.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Still don't get the Nolan hate, but whatever. Memento is one of the most creative and original films ever. You can't argue that. Well, you can, but you'd look like a fool.

I wonder if Dick Whitman would try.

P.S. I'm watching Mad Men season 1 and I now understand where your name came from. Nice.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises



No one hates Nolan; nor is anyone criticizing 'Memento.'

Nor is Christopher Nolan "the seminal filmmaker of our time."

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I like "Memento." I wish Nolan had stuck to that kind of film making. He didn't. I don't hate Nolan. I hate "Inception." And the level to which the screenplay was flawed really gives me pause about his chops as a storyteller, moving forward.

NDub, I think you mentioned on the movie thread that films were something you are just kind of starting to get into now. Which is cool. It's great to discover something that you can really dive into and become passionate about. I remember in college when I first got turned onto Bob Dylan. It was like, "And there's more where this came from!? How the hell did I not know about this!!!" I thought "Tom Thumb's Blues" was the greatest song ever written. Until I heard "It's Alright Ma." Which was the greatest. Until "Visions of Johanna." Which was the greatest until ... well, the buck might have stopped there.

Point being: There are a lot of great directors out there. Directors who make films far riskier and that resonate far deeper than "Inception" could ever dream to. Or even than "Memento" could. If you keep going, you are going to have your world rocked. I'm actually kind of jealous. You are in that place right now. You are probably still at "Blowin' in the Wind." But don't stop there.

P.S. Yeah, seemed appropriate for a fake name! Although I guess it's in reverse the way I'm using it.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Nicely done.

I kind of look at it like this... there are movies and there are films. The latter is the artistic, meaningful stuff. The former can be good, very good, but they're more spectacle. Inception is the former.

There are great directors out there, and folks as good as or better than Nolan. The Coen Brothers, Paul Thomas Anderson, Spielberg, Sir Ridley and Cameron are there. I think Nolan should be included in any discussion of today's best directors. I think I'll give it to Spielberg. Saving Private Ryan, man. Saving. Private. Ryan.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'm not sure I'd rank James Cameron with directors who're also being touted for artistic accomplishments. I don't think he makes the top tier with the likes of Spielberg or Scorsese, and I think Nolan and the Coens will eventually surpass him.

The man's contribution to cinema in the technical sense, on the other hand, is phenomenal. He's as innovative as Spielberg but nowhere near as creative, if that makes any sense. I don't think his ambitions rise above making really, really good "spectacle" movies.

 

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And that makes Christopher Nolan better than him .... how?

Seems to me like Nolan is well on his way to becoming a poor man's James Cameron.

 

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

One question for Dark Knight fans:

By the end, it's Commissioner Gordon's kids who are in jeopardy. Seriously—did anyone give a crap?

And the Joker mind games, especially the big one with the rigged boats one of full of prisoners, the other full of ordinary citizens—do you find them as interesting on second viewing as on the first?

I liked Dark Knight in the rush of the theater, but when I saw it on cable a year later I was like, eh, really? Nice theatrics by Ledger, some good Wayne-is-superrich stuff, but it much of it just came off as limp to me.

 

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The term "better" is tricky, because I think James Cameron is doing precisely what he intends to do, and doing it extremely well. But, yes, I think Nolan has it in him to make films that are creatively superior. I don't think he's done it yet, and whether that's the direction he'll take his stuff in the future is questionable right now. He seems to like making spectacle pieces and may be satisfied with that. And I don't, by the by, use that term in a negative fashion. I enjoy the hell out of Cameron's stuff. I'm not a cinema snob. I find a great deal of value in "pop" art. But I expect a different experience out of a James Cameron movie than I do out of more artistic directors.

 

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I think that Nolan making "Memento," "Insomnia," and "The Prestige" are indicators that Nolan has it in him to surpass Cameron as a director. I think that some sci-fi/action fans are so thrilled that a director like that, with that kind of mainstream critical credibility, has taken on their genre that they overrate his movies.

I hate that people are willing to excuse flawed story telling because it's "a movie, not a film" or something along those lines. Or insinuate that character development is for snobs. Above all, you have to make me care. You have to, or you have failed. No amount of explosions or big names or psuedo-philosophical exposition or plot gimmicks can make up for that. There have to be stakes that I'm invested in.

 

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I hope the movie vs. film thing wasn't a shot at me. What makes it a "movie" is that it's less developed in plot and characters, and more spectacle. You go for the booms and bangs and effects (seriously, fuck Michael Bay, though). The Pirates series, even the first, fall into my "movie" side of movie vs. film. What makes it a film is the deep plot and characters. Inception went for both and hit in some areas and missed in others. What saved the character part of it was that our protagonist was the best and most-developed. Forget the wife. It was the kids. It didn't matter if that top would've kept spinning or stopped at the end. That wasn't the point. The point was he was with his kids. That I cared and realized that speaks about the character development. But, yes, it was weak in other areas (with his dad), and the supporting characters had little depth. You didn't know anything about them; they were plot points. I think what made Inception tick, what made it the spectacle, what made it arguably Nolan's best-known film, was the incredibly unique concept.