"The Avengers"

Hulk has had his moments -- and about 1,000 different incarnations and personality tweaks -- in the comics. Some have been better than others.
For whatever reason, however, he hasn't translated well to film. We've had a TV series, two Hulk-based movies, and a prominent role in Avengers, and all of them are generally regarded as "meh." Even the TV series was pretty formulaic.
Whether it's bad casting, bad acting or bad writing, I'm not sure. Maybe he would do better in a modern TV series where they could stretch their legs more.

 

Marvel superhero movies

'Blade' = Liked it. Not a great movie, but I liked it.
'X-Men' = Very good. This is what blockbuster action movies should strive to be.
'Blade II' = Not good.
'Spider-Man' = Good, fun action/blockbuster movie.
'Daredevil' = not good
'X2' = Well short of the first, still alright.
'Hulk' = Not good.
'The Punisher' = Bad.
'Spider-Man 2' = Alright, still fun, but not as good as the first.
'Blade: Trinity' = Not good.
'Elektra' = Not good.
'Fantastic Four' = Very bad.
'X-Men: The Last Stand' = Not good.
'Ghost Rider' = Very bad.
'Spider-Man 3' = Bad.
'Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer' = Very bad.
'Iron Man' = Good, fun action movie.
'The Incredible Hulk' = Bad
'X-Men Origins: Wolverine:' Very bad.
'Iron Man 2' = Bad.
'Thor' = Bad.
'X-Men: First Class': Bad.
'Captain America: The First Avenger' = Bad
'Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance' = Absolutely terrible.
'The Avengers' = Good, fun action movie.
'The Amazing Spider-Man' = Bad.

 

I loved X2 and X-Men: First Class.

 

DC superhero movies

I didn't like any of the first group of Superman movies.

'Batman' = Good.
'Batman Returns' = Not good.
'Batman Forever' = Bad.
'Batman and Robin' = Terrible.
'Steel' = Never saw it.
'Catwoman' = Terrible.
'Batman Begins' = Very good.
'Superman Returns' = Not good.
'The Dark Knight' = Good.
'Watchmen' = Very good.
'Jonah Hex' = Bad.
'Green Lantern' = Terrible.
'The Dark Knight Rises' = Bad.

 

Dear Ragu, Terrier and Albert 77: Go scour the Internet and see if there's a tape of a "Midsummer Night's Dream" that was on network TV in about 1968 or 1969. Diana Rigg appeared in what was basically a body stocking covered with green paint. Still a vivid memory over 40 years later.

 

I agree that the non-comic fans don't know who she is. But there are ways to introduce a character without eating up 5-10 minutes on campy action and dialogue. Frankly, I think we could have all figured out who she was, comic fan or no, without it.
And the scene itself was just campy, which comic book movies should be trying hard to avoid. It kills suspension of disbelief, which is hard for non-comic fans to maintain anyway.

 

I wish I had read Planet Hulk. I read World War Hulk, which was damn disappointing, but heard Planet Hulk was much better.

I thought the Hulk was handled well in The Avengers. Norrin already explained the bit that confused Dick. It's not that Banner can stop the accidental transformations, but he is able to make himself transform when needed.

Regarding the "turn your brain off," I think there are two ways to watch The Avengers. One is as the movie that draws on and ties together the other Marvel Universe movies. That is how I saw it. I had seen all of the movies leading into it. For that kind of approach, you wouldn't want to turn your brain off at all, but you need to have seen the other movies.

For example, Dick dismisses Selvig as "random guy," but he was a significant character in Thor. Unlike the major characters, he's not somebody recognizable to those who hadn't seen the previous Marvel U movies.

But if you are going to go in without that background, I do think it is best to just enjoy it as a popcorn flick and not bother with the little plot points. Mrs. OOP isn't into comics and had only seen the two Iron Man movies, but she enjoyed The Avengers without putting much thought into it.

My 9-year-old hadn't seen any of the other Marvel U movies, but she had seen couple of episodes of an Avengers cartoon, so she was familiar with the characters from there. She loved the movie, especially any scene with the Hulk in it.

Regarding printit's point, some of the fighting scenes border on campy. The "Puny God" bit certainly does, but that was one of my favorite parts of the movie anyway.

 

Look, I hats to keep obsessing about this Hulk thing, because on some level I truly Do Not Care, but there is a logical inconsistency there. Ok, so he cant help the accidental transformations but he can control the times when he WANTS to be Hulk. Ok. But you're telling me when he accidentally becomes Hulk, he wants to kill Black Widow and everything in sight and spends and hour trying, but when he WANTS to be Hulk, he can change into him and smash shit and work together with his friends and stand back to back with them as a clear team fighting flying centipedes.

It just feels like its missing a scene. Nothing happens for him to figure out how to be Good Hulk instead of Bad Hulk other than the plot calls for it.

 

There was a deleted scene in which Harry Dean Stanton ministers to him.

I may or may not be kidding.

 

If you're going to start rating all the Marvel and comic book movies, you should check out nowplayingpodcast.com. It's also on iTunes.
Leading up to Avengers, they did long (as in an hour-plus, sometimes close to two hours for some films, and damn near three hours on Avengers itself), in-depth reviews of every single Marvel movie ever released. The list includes some Hulk, Captain America and Spiderman TV movies from the 1970s, the two Daredevil movies, Ghost Rider, Howard the Duck ... everything.
They've moved on to other things, but are doing a piecemeal DC retrospective this year with "Man of Steel" coming out (they've already gotten to Batman and Green Lantern).
Definitely worth checking out if you're into movie review podcasts and have a few months to kill.

 

There are two different issues there. One is controlling his transformations. The other is controlling his behavior after the transformations. I was speaking to the former. There was a good bit about him working on controlling his transformations in The Incredible Hulk, including the final scene.

I do get your point about the Hulk's behavioral differences from the first transformation to the second. I didn't have as much of a problem with it, but my explanation is on much shakier ground.

My thought was that it is based a lot on Banner's emotional state when he turns.

Remember, Banner distrusts the Black Widow in particular and SHIELD in general from the very first meeting. What he learns on the Helicarrier just proves to him that they can't be trusted. And just when he's angry with SHIELD, there is an attack, the stress of which puts him over the edge. So he lashes out at SHIELD and Black Widow in particular because that's who he was angry with.

In the final battle, Banner's attitude toward the other Avengers is different. He chose to come to fight by their side, so it makes sense that the Hulk would have a more cooperative attitude.

 

I am a comic book purist. I go waaay back when they were only a nickle. I've seen just about every superhero flick and for the most part, found them to be entertaining. I realize that you can't replicate what you see in the comics to what is viewed on the screen.
I realize the frustration many have when they go to a movie to watch a superhero character. The way I approach them now is (1) Did the movie entertain me? (2) Did it make sense? (3) Would I pay to see it again.