1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Ted Simmons: HOF?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Apr 11, 2016.

Page 3 of 7
  1. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    Simmons was considered a bad defensive catcher, but the stats don't quite back it up. He was more of an average catcher. The four things that factor against him
    1. He was an exact contemporary of Bench, so his defense is remembered as bad in comparison.
    2. His power numbers paled in comparison to Bench, but in his prime he could hit 20 a year.
    3. Never had a "huge" season, which would make people remember him.
    4. He spent most of his best years on mediocre Cardinals teams....not bad teams... but not team that people remember.

    Should he have gotten a better look from the HOF? Yes. Is he better than a lot of catchers in the hall? Yes.
     
    cyclingwriter2, Apr 11, 2016
    #25
    Liut likes this.
  2. Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!

    Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! Well-Known Member

    One more thing:
    When you list the best catchers off the top of your head of the 70s and 80s, do you list Simmons? No.
    When you list the best hitters of the 70s and 80s off the top of your head, do you list Simmons? No.

    I'm not saying you can't go back and apply statistical analysis to a career and say that guy should be in the HOF. People get overlooked. But I'm not so sure you forget or overrule the eyeball comparisons either.
     
    Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!, Apr 11, 2016
    #26
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    So what?

    So what?

    Why wouldn't you? What do the "eyeball comparisons" tell you about Simmons' contributions that do not show up in 21 seasons and nearly 9,700 plate appearances and more than 15,000 innings worth of accumulated performance data?
     
    Dick Whitman, Apr 11, 2016
    #27
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Simmons played some in the field -- throughout his career actually -- but that is true of other catchers. Actually it's true to one degree or another of almost all catchers who last any amount of time. I don't see how you could qualify him as anything except a catcher. He played what, 90 percent of his career behind the plate? Bench played some in the field too -- maybe more of his games on a percentage basis than Simmons did.
     
    The Big Ragu, Apr 11, 2016
    #28
  5. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    You speak excellent Sparky-ese. As a childhood Sparky watcher, I can vouch for that triple-negative combo being precisely how Sparky would've phrased it.
     
    Stoney, Apr 11, 2016
    #29
  6. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    Yes, he's right after Bench, Carter and Fisk.
     
    CD Boogie, Apr 11, 2016
    #30
    Liut likes this.
  7. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    I do.
     
    cranberry, Apr 11, 2016
    #31
    Liut likes this.
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That wasn't me channeling him. I dug out the quote. The munchkin version of me was outraged! Outraged! But shit was Sparky right about that one. Just as the drunk guy outside of Yankee Stadium my dad had to drag me away from was right about George Brett being better than Graig Nettles -- my readiness to fight to the death at the time, notwithstanding.
     
    The Big Ragu, Apr 11, 2016
    #32
    Huggy and YankeeFan like this.
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Same here. I definitely remember Ted Simmons being considered among the best catchers during those years. He was also among the best players, period. He was a legit All Star / near MVP guy quite a few years. This is one HOF conversation that isn't ridiculous to my mind. I think he falls short, but I can see an argument for him.
     
    The Big Ragu, Apr 11, 2016
    #33
    Liut likes this.
  10. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    Bench actually played more games away from catcher (451) - in three fewer seasons - than Simmons (264) did.
     
    novelist_wannabe, Apr 11, 2016
    #34
  11. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    He suffered by comparison to Lonnie Smith in this regard ...
     
    novelist_wannabe, Apr 11, 2016
    #35
  12. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    That was me. You prompted me to take a second look. Here are the numbers.

    Simmons
    2472 hits, 483 doubles, 47 triples, 248 home runs, 1389 RBI, 855 walks, 694 strikeouts, .285 BA, .348 OBP, .437 SLG, .785 OPS

    Bench
    2048 hits, 381 doubles, 24 triples, 389 home runs, 1376 RBI, 891 walks, 1278 strikeouts, .267 BA, .342 OBP, .476 SLG, .817 OPS

    So I take your point. Bench is definitely the gold standard.

    That said, nearly 2,500 hits is hard to ignore.

    A fun, though of questionable relevancy, discussion would be the effect of who was hitting behind them. Did George Foster hit behind Bench, or was it the other way around? Was it Reggie Smith behind Simmons?
     
    novelist_wannabe, Apr 11, 2016
    #36
Page 3 of 7
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page