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S&P Downgrades USA's Credit Outlook

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by CarltonBanks, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    The link between the wealthy and jobs has been irrevocably severed empirically, because the wealthy have been getting better off for 40 years and the jobs have no matched it.
     
  2. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Yeah, you do have to wonder why S&P's word would be treated as gospel. It may be right, but it was as complicit as anyone in saying that shit was gold before Wall Street started flushing us down the toilet. Then again, the markets, such as they were, seem to have shrugged this off. There are other, more immediate reasons to panic/not panic.
     
  3. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks New Member

    Please do find a link. That makes a lot of sense.
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    None of that is politically palatable. There is a very narrow spectrum of taxability that will keep the people in office in office. You can play with how you sell it. In the late 70s, for example, it was high rates, a lot of loopholes. When Reagan sold people on lower rates, it was lower rates, but fewer loopholes. The net effect was close to the same thing in terms of tax revenues. The amount of tax revenues they end up bringing in still stays within a small range (taking into account how robust the economy is at the moment, to create income), because the only thing that has changed is the rhetoric.

    Congress is not going to push through a "higher tax rates, no loopholes," bill. Sure, it would raise a lot more revenue. And if we are going to run these levels of debt, we should be raising a lot more revenue. But your Congressman wants to stay in office. And that kind of tax code will get lots of people unelected, from the President on down. Taxes are the number one populist issue.

    The flip side problem is that debt is a two-pronged problem. It is not just revenues, it is spending. And it has been the spending side that has put us into such great debt. Again, though, Charley Congressman, gets and retains power by handing out favors to special interest. And favors = Federal money getting handed out like bags of money get handed to mob hoods. So lowering the spending amounts -- starting with the failed entitlement programs, which are sinking us most -- is a political football too. Not handing out favors gets lots of people unelected, from the President on down.

    This is the system we have allowed to form because at points during the last 50 to 100 years, as a population, we didn't check it properly and we allowed our legislators to hand out more and more favors for power, and didn't hold anyone's feet to the fire regarding how to pay for it.

    And as with any kind of Federal spending, once the special interests get their hands in the cookie jar, you can't just scale it back by saying, "OK, we're done." You have to pry the money from their dead cold hands. In fact, they expect more and more, and they hold the office of Charley Congressman over his head for ransom to get it. It's why it has gotten worse and worse, and not even with the warnings people are voicing now, do I expect it to change. It is going to take a real crisis to force change.
     
  5. Tarheel316

    Tarheel316 Well-Known Member

    You are right. IMO, that link is social Darwinist GOP propaganda to justify tax cuts for millionaires while attacking the safety net for those who are most vulnerable.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I wish people would realize this is not a GOP issue. It's a political issue. The rising income gap is due to what I posted about above. People with the money to buy government favors are the ones getting richer. Fuck up your investment bank? Call up your old co-worker at the Treasury Department. Need to revive your equipment making company that no one has any demand for? Get Congress to put $100 million into a massive spending bill.

    This is not Republicans or Democrats. It is our political system. It has become pay for play. And only a small percentage have the ability to pay. In return, they are getting wealthier. And that is why there has been a rising income gap.

    That is a simplistic post that doesn't account for a lot of other things. But that is what is going on in a nutshell. And meanwhile, people who aren't part of that pay for play group -- people on this message board -- have silly arguments about Republicans and Democrats and argue it so vehemently -- when there is so little difference between the two. The political parties that actually have power in this country use empty rhetoric to win over the masses and people actually get sold on it. And BOTH Republicans and Democrats use money to buy their power from a small segment of the population that is riding their influence to a greater income gap.
     
  7. Shaggy

    Shaggy Guest

    From the Washington Post story

    "The survey finds that Americans prefer to keep Medicare just the way it is. Most also oppose cuts in Medicaid and the defense budget. More than half say they are against small, across-the-board tax increases combined with modest reductions in Medicare and Social Security benefits. Only President Obama’s call to raise tax rates on the wealthiest Americans enjoys solid support."

    Here why America is hurting bad right now.

    We recognize there is a huge problem, but we only want the problem fixed if the consequences of fixing it have no impact on us.

    We are a very fickle, entitled nation of people and that doesn't bode well.

    Republicans want to cut spending. Democrats want to raise taxes. And most people are too loyal to one side or the other to realize that BOTH need to happen.
     
  8. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    Even just stopping our efforts in Iraq would take care of so much of our budget woes. And if we focused our military on our self-defense, which we have more than enough hardware to take care of, and focused our antiterrorist efforts on information-gathering and small-group, mobile and flexible troops, we would be in the black a lot quicker. And doing what we can to not have a destitute underclass is generating extra security and previously untapped resources.
     
  9. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks New Member

    I don't understand why people want taxes raised when Reagan's tax cuts increased tax reciepts. The government needs to cut spending, that is clear. But raising taxes in this economy, with the high unemployment and very poor consumer confidence, would be a mistake in my opinion.
     
  10. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    Pulling out of Iraq probably makes sense but the political reality is we can never cut back to the point where all we focus on is self-defense just isn't going to happen. Like it or not, we're the world's cop and that's not going to change.
     
  11. secretariat

    secretariat Active Member

    That would be true if it weren't completely, 100 percent false. While spending like a drunken sailor, Reagan raised taxes repeatedly.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030729-503544.html

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/02/barack-obama-ronald-reagan-budget-taxes-opinions-contributors-rob-shapiro.html

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm
     
  12. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks New Member

    His initial 25% across the board tax cut increased tax reciepts...
    http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm
     
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