pyrrhic victory

Most people are not stupid. The attitude of any paper should be their readers are all above average, as proven by their intelligent decision to buy said paper in the first place.
Prryhic victory has been an accepted phrase in the English language for centuries. If the writer was justified using it in the lede, it should stay, whether or not some guy on the desk knew what it meant.
People can get dumbed-down information anywhere-the net, local TV news, talk radio. Newspapers have nothing to sell besides the idea they're a source of information for intelligent readers.
Everytime we act otherwise, it's just another act of slow-motion suicide.

 

I can't agree more with Gee's reasoning.

Write then drink presumes to "know" his readers and figures most will stop reading his paper if it publishes material "above their heads."
That's a patronizing attitude to have and one that potentially blinds you from covering events and news and producing new features that might attract new readers.
My guess is WTD is more afraid of the reference than his readers would be.

I'd be interested to see the actual lede or story that prompted this thread in the first place.

 

Of course I know what a pyrrhic victory is. That's when it looks like a weiner, right?

 

I understand what you're saying, Mr. Gee, but, as write-then-drink pointed out (probably before drinking), I don't think we should have to make people work -- or, even worse, run to the dictionary -- to understand what the hell we're talking about. That may sound like I'm arguing for dumbed-down information, but I'm not.

I think there's a fine line with this kind of stuff, and we should have an idea of where that line is. "Pyrrhic victory" crosses it, to me, because, in my mind, not enough people would know what it is. I can't define "not enough," but to me, there are other ways to say this that more readers would understand. "Victory at a huge cost" is roughly the same thing.

 

Column, yes. Gamer, no.

 

It's another cliche, only it's had more staying power than the rest.

Strike.

 

Yes.
Maybe.

If the rest of the story makes the phrase's meaning clear enough to any reader who doesn't know what a Pyrrhic victory is off the top of their heads, then it's acceptable. ... But if a writer uses that phrase and then the rest of the story doesn't explain why the victory came at a great cost, then it's not acceptable.

But truth be told, there are many, many instances in sports where this phrase could be used. (Most recent case in point: Nadal's grueling five-set comeback over Murray in the R16 could be seen as a Pyrrhic victory, if it made him too exhausted for last night's QFs. Gonzalez's beatdown of the No. 2 seed certainly makes a strong case for that.)

Therefore, this is a phrase that is perfectly acceptable in a sports story.

Let's quit dumbing down the newspaper. Let's quit dumbing down society.

 

Sirs, Madames,

I know what it is, I would use it without hesitation but according to a quick search I haven't used the term in the last 11 years. I once had "schadenfreude" bounced back on me--an editor sustituted a very wordy dictionary definition instead. Same ham-hander made my copy nonsensical by changing "celerity" to "celebrity."

YHS, etc

 

right. it comes down to this - why use a phrase that confuses many readers instead of one most understand.

writing clear, understandable prose is not dumbing down

 

it confused you. doesn't mean it confuses everybody

its perfectly acceptable, at least it should be

 

I believe this is, at the very least, the philosophy of the Lake Wobegon Journal.

 

What never fails to piss me off are people who try to use their copy to get themselves over at the expense of their constituency. I just used the 14th listed synonym for constipated and I referenced Tristram Shrandy without explaining why; I'm ever so brilliant. If only the mouth-breathing proles that make up my readership could ever put down their crack pipes and beer bongs long enough to understand. I know this because I was guilty of it in my salad early days. I'd write the kind of stories that should have had as a tagline Mr. E. Meat can be reached at 1-900-649-2568, but be assured that he went to a fine college while you were digging ditches and cleaning toilets, so remember your place when you call.

Look, you're not writing for the 99th percentile, you're writing for the middle. Shameful as this may sound to some people in our business, there are people who read us that didn't even GO to college, much less graduate. Write good, write clear, write strong, but for the love of all that's holy, don't write above your readers. I had a teacher who did that, and I didn't learn a fucking thing from him because he was too busy talking to the chemists of the future, neglecting those of us who took it because we had no choice. That's no way to be an educator, and that's no way to be a journalist, either.